Rules question on Single Line Working (SLW)?

[Lufcman]

Would I be correct in stating that in SLW if you cannot contact the signaller, either right or wrong direction moves, when you have failed you would lay assistance protection in the direction that gives you the quickest means of communication with the signaller? Providing the Pilotman is not on board as he would arrange this for you!

 

[LowLevel]

If you are doing single line working travelling in the wrong direction without the pilot man, you must apply emergency protection, not assistance protection, in the rear of your train, if you can't contact the signaller. You need to read module M2 for the full gen though, the proceeding paragraph was the one hammered in during training school for the first actions during SLW. For clarity - out of date duff gen!

If you are travelling in the right direction or have the pilot man, it is assistance protection in the most appropriate considered direction for reaching a phone, yes.

 

[carriageline]

I think lowlevel has got it all. Emerg protection if you can't contact the signaller, and don't have the pilotman on board will be in the rear first, as presumably the pilot man will stay at the rear and no train should enter without him being there!

If you have the pilotman, assistance protection in the best direction.

As a side note, the pilotman doesn't have to be present to allow the assisting train to enter the single line, although us signallers need his permission!


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[Lufcman]

If you are doing single line working travelling in the wrong direction without the pilot man, you must apply emergency protection, not assistance protection, in the rear of your train, if you can't contact the signaller. You need to read module M2 for the full gen though, the proceeding paragraph was the one hammered in during training school for the first actions during SLW.

If you are travelling in the right direction or have the pilot man, it is assistance protection in the most appropriate considered direction for reaching a phone, yes.

The rule book now states you only need to place emergency protection in TBW and you cannot contact the signaller, SLW failures state follow M2?

 

[carriageline]

Yeah but M2 says the same. Emergency if you can't contact the signaller, Assistance if you can?

Also lowlevel, why would you still place assistance protection but can't contact signaller, no pilotman, but right direction? In my eyes it's emergency still?


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[Lufcman]

Yeah but M2 says the same. Emergency if you can't contact the signaller, Assistance if you can?

Also lowlevel, why would you still place assistance protection but can't contact signaller, no pilotman, but right direction? In my eyes it's emergency still?


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2.1 When to place emergency protection
You need to carry out emergency protection only if:
• the signaller cannot be contacted immediately, and
• your train has failed within a temporary block working section.

The big word in this paragraph is 'and'!

 

[Llama]

It is now TBW only that requires emergency protection if signaller cannot be contacted in train failure situation. It hasn't been required under SLW for a long time now.

It is important to note that not only do you place emergency protection, you must also place assistance protection. These must be placed in rear of your train.

M2 is very clear in this, I suspect some on here are reading obsolete versions.

In SLW even if the pilotman doesn't travel with the train the pilotman still controls all movements on the single line under authority of the signaller, hence the pilotman is effectively an extra safeguard. In TBW there is only one layer of safeguard which is less robust - the handsignaller at the entrance signal.

 

[LowLevel]

Quite correct - this is what happens when you check your gen on training materials from 2012 before posting!! Correction duly accepted

 

[carriageline]

2.1 When to place emergency protection

You need to carry out emergency protection only if:

• the signaller cannot be contacted immediately, and

• your train has failed within a temporary block working section.



The big word in this paragraph is 'and'!

You are correct! For some reason I couldn't edit my post!


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[Lufcman]

It is now TBW only that requires emergency protection if signaller cannot be contacted in train failure situation. It hasn't been required under SLW for a long time now.

It is important to note that not only do you place emergency protection, you must also place assistance protection. These must be placed in rear of your train.

M2 is very clear in this, I suspect some on here are reading obsolete versions.

In SLW even if the pilotman doesn't travel with the train the pilotman still controls all movements on the single line under authority of the signaller, hence the pilotman is effectively an extra safeguard. In TBW there is only one layer of safeguard which is less robust - the handsignaller at the entrance signal.

Ahah!
So back to the original question! What direction do you lay the protection if you cannot contact the signaller?

 

[Tomnick]

Not sure how much the Rule Book specifies - I'll check later - but assistance protection ought to be placed in the direction that provides the quickest means of speaking to the signalman. The worst that can then happen is that you've got to pick it up and walk to the other end of the train!

 

[Lufcman]

Not sure how much the Rule Book specifies - I'll check later - but assistance protection ought to be placed in the direction that provides the quickest means of speaking to the signalman. The worst that can then happen is that you've got to pick it up and walk to the other end of the train!

That's what I thought, the instructions in SLW module say refer to M2 which is to proceed in the direction that gives you the quickest means of contacting the signaller.
My thought was that if this was forwards then the rear of your train is not protected so if another train was sent in to look for you, it could leave you vulnerable especially in poor visibility.

 

[Tomnick]

Trust me, another train wouldn't be sent in to look for you!!

 

[carriageline]

No train would be sent in to look for you lol, something on an adjacent line would be cautioned and be sent to have a little look though!


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[Tomnick]

You probably wouldn't be working SLW* if you had an adjacent line available though .

* - yes, for the rest of the pedants, using SLW to work over two lines of a four track railway excepted!

 

[Lufcman]

Thanks for the replies guys
The plain English rule book doesn't make it plain enough!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Thanks for the replies guys
The plain English rule book doesn't make it plain enough!

oh god tell me about it. Module S5, what in the name of f**kery does "An electric train is to pass the signal protecting an isolated section and proceed towards the limiting point." mean?

 

[driver9000]

oh god tell me about it. Module S5, what in the name of f**kery does "An electric train is to pass the signal protecting an isolated section and proceed towards the limiting point." mean?

It means you are to take your electric loco/unit past a signal towards an isolated section of OLE but there is a board/marker to prevent you running into the dead section. For example you draw up to a signal and in the section is a platform you are to terminate in but beyond that platform is isolated OLE, you would pass the signal at danger to reach the platform. The platform would be your limiting point.

(Or conductor rail).

 

[carriageline]

You probably wouldn't be working SLW* if you had an adjacent line available though .

* - yes, for the rest of the pedants, using SLW to work over two lines of a four track railway excepted!

No no of course! I was talking more of a failed train in general, because I definetly would hope no train would be sent into look for a train in a single line section, as that goes completely against SLW!!




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[Tomnick]

Not just SLW either, but one of the basic principles of signalling! Quite right though, you'd caution one on the adjacent road if necessary, although there can't be many places where they'd still have failed to make contact by then - the depths of a long, pre-GSMR tunnel, perhaps?!

 

[carriageline]

To be honest, in my next of the woods, if a train failed after passing our (technically speaking but it's not) home signal, and failed, and didnt have the box number we could be screwed as we don't have GSMR!


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[HSTfan!!!]

It means you are to take your electric loco/unit past a signal towards an isolated section of OLE but there is a board/marker to prevent you running into the dead section. For example you draw up to a signal and in the section is a platform you are to terminate in but beyond that platform is isolated OLE, you would pass the signal at danger to reach the platform. The platform would be your limiting point.

(Or conductor rail).

Thanks for the clarification, never did understand that one!