Rules on uniform

[DaveyBAberdeen]

Hi guys,

New to this site and new to driving buses as of August 2020

I work for Stagecoach, loved my training and enjoy the job for the most part.

Yesterday though I was accosted by management for breaking uniform regulation - I'd taken my tie off during break and forgot to put it back on. I explained it'd slipped my mind and my fleece was zipped up anyway so no one would've noticed. Was told this was a warning and he'd be checking from now on.

I just think it's ridiculous - have put so much into this job to get hastle for something as little as this! Don't like wearing ties and it certainly doesn't affect my ability to do the job!

What are the rules about ties at other depots? Is it as strict?

 

[CN04NRJ]

Hi guys,

New to this site and new to driving buses as of August 2020

I work for Stagecoach, loved my training and enjoy the job for the most part.

Yesterday though I was accosted by management for breaking uniform regulation - I'd taken my tie off during break and forgot to put it back on. I explained it'd slipped my mind and my fleece was zipped up anyway so no one would've noticed. Was told this was a warning and he'd be checking from now on.

I just think it's ridiculous - have put so much into this job to get hastle for something as little as this! Don't like wearing ties and it certainly doesn't affect my ability to do the job!

What are the rules about ties at other depots? Is it as strict?

I've heard of drivers at Stagecoach being booked/reported for petty uniform offences. A friend of mine regularly helped out on Megabus at his depot but was employed as a service driver - he was jumped by an inspector who said she was going to book him for wearing Megabus black trousers and not blue trousers while doing a service shift. He said he answered along the lines of "well, do you want me to take them off here and now?" .

Working at Lothian we have to wear ties between September and May 1st, they're pretty strict on it outside of those times but I agree with it. They provide an excellent quality uniform (and quantity, i've got 3 different types of coats and a blazer) and it's only right they expect it to be worn properly - I feel proud to wear it. I've seen some drivers pulled up on not wearing ties shortly after the summer period ended but it was more of a gentle reminder of you should be wearing it, and make sure you've got it on tomorrow.

To me it sounds like your management could be a bit more diplomatic, but I think from all the people i've known who work at/have worked at Stagecoach they do seem pretty over the top about uniform and berate drivers for minor things - like I was told that if you're wearing a jumper in the summer without a tie you get booked as even though you're allowed your tie off, wearing a jumper means you're not warm so thus must wear a tie. Bonkers!

 

[Flying Snail]

If ties are part of the uniform than you're going to have to suck it up and wear them. Particularly while you are still probationary you are going to have to be careful with this sort of petty nonsense.

If you have a choice go for real ties not clip-ons as you can leave the collar button undone and have the tie slightly loose. If you just leave it on all day you will eventually get used to it to the point you will hardly notice it being there.

The only "benefit" of clip-ons is that they are no use to someone assaulting you, TBH if you are driving buses somewhere the chances of assault are so high that wearing a real tie is a genuine risk then you'd be better off binning the job anyway. Considering how insultingly crap bus driving wages are in the UK I'd advise looking at it as a temporary job while you look/train/study for something with better wages and prospects anyway.

Sadly dealing with tossers in management/supervisor grades is also an unavoidable part of the job, it's rare to find a depot in any of the big companies without at least one gestapo type who believes their job is to keep the underlings in line by threatening and bullying.

In a new job it is always a fine line between keeping your head down and not being a walk-over, in this case you were in the wrong so you just have to take it on the chin (and keep the tie under your chin while at work).

 

[PG]

I'll second what @CN04NRJ said re jumpers and ties; in the past I've resorted to putting heater on just so I didn't have to wear a tie before the end of September!

Pretty much as soon as you're in the door they are looking to find reasons to throw you out; sadly for a good few guys its enough for them to leave the industry altogether. Unfortunately some companies (not just Stagecoach) view drivers as expendable as they know new recruits are knocking at the door...

 

[CN04NRJ]

I'll second what @CN04NRJ said re jumpers and ties; in the past I've resorted to putting heater on just so I didn't have to wear a tie before the end of September!

Pretty much as soon as you're in the door they are looking to find reasons to throw you out; sadly for a good few guys its enough for them to leave the industry altogether. Unfortunately some companies (not just Stagecoach) view drivers as expendable as they know new recruits are knocking at the door...

Stagecoach in particular are renowned for sacking drivers left, right and centre for petty things. Echo your comments for the OP just to tread lightly and suck it up, keep your head down - do what they tell you and just get on with the job without complaining. Don't make a name for yourself and you'll get on just fine.

 

[DaveyBAberdeen]

If ties are part of the uniform than you're going to have to suck it up and wear them. Particularly while you are still probationary you are going to have to be careful with this sort of petty nonsense.

If you have a choice go for real ties not clip-ons as you can leave the collar button undone and have the tie slightly loose. If you just leave it on all day you will eventually get used to it to the point you will hardly notice it being there.

The only "benefit" of clip-ons is that they are no use to someone assaulting you, TBH if you are driving buses somewhere the chances of assault are so high that wearing a real tie is a genuine risk then you'd be better off binning the job anyway. Considering how insultingly crap bus driving wages are in the UK I'd advise looking at it as a temporary job while you look/train/study for something with better wages and prospects anyway.

Sadly dealing with tossers in management/supervisor grades is also an unavoidable part of the job, it's rare to find a depot in any of the big companies without at least one gestapo type who believes their job is to keep the underlings in line by threatening and bullying.

In a new job it is always a fine line between keeping your head down and not being a walk-over, in this case you were in the wrong so you just have to take it on the chin (and keep the tie under your chin while at work).

It's a real tie I have - will leave it on all day as you said to get used to it.

You're right about taking it on the chin - the issue really isn't wearing a tie - that is trivial, it was much more to do with the way I was spoken to!

 

[richw]

You're right about taking it on the chin - the issue really isn't wearing a tie - that is trivial, it was much more to do with the way I was spoken to!

I’ve heard stories of inspectors thinking they are army sargents in how they bark orders etc.
Luckily where I am our inspector is alright and can have a laugh with him.

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

The concept of a grown adult berating and warning another adult for something as petty as forgetting to put your tie back on seems completley crazy. I understand the premise of wanting staff to look well presented, but maybe they should apply for a job at a primary school instead where they can boss little children around all day long.

Interesting.

 

[Eyersey468]

At East Yorkshire as long as epaulettes are visible we don't have to wear a tie

 

[Geordie driver]

Hi guys,



New to this site and new to driving buses as of August 2020



I work for Stagecoach, loved my training and enjoy the job for the most part.



Yesterday though I was accosted by management for breaking uniform regulation - I'd taken my tie off during break and forgot to put it back on. I explained it'd slipped my mind and my fleece was zipped up anyway so no one would've noticed. Was told this was a warning and he'd be checking from now on.



I just think it's ridiculous - have put so much into this job to get hastle for something as little as this! Don't like wearing ties and it certainly doesn't affect my ability to do the job!



What are the rules about ties at other depots? Is it as strict?

Welcome to the world of UK bus work, where many companies go out of their way to make the lives of their drivers worse then wonder why they have trouble retaining staff.

In 19 years of driving I was successfully booked once, for the heinous crime of wearing a cap because the sun was in my eyes. I was having bother on my bus and approached 2 inspector's for help, they declined and walked away, then reported me for wearing a hat.

If I could give you some advice? Get out, it's not a good job in most of the country now, the rewards given the level of responsibility and concentration required are simply not worth it.

 

[richw]

If I could give you some advice? Get out, it's not a good job in most of the country now, the rewards given the level of responsibility and concentration required are simply not worth it.

find a good opco and it’s a great job.
where I am one operator looks after their staff and we all get along like good mates, even with management.
The other operator the staff can often be seen arguing in the street, bus stations with their management

 

[duncombec]

Welcome to the world of UK bus work, where many companies go out of their way to make the lives of their drivers worse then wonder why they have trouble retaining staff.

Bus work isn't unique, and I doubt it is in the UK either. This sort of story can be all too easily common in any business or industry that requires staff to wear a uniform. From the multitude of local-paper stories about "my kid wasn't allowed to go to school with his celebrity hairstyle" to the finest quality hotels, companies have standards and expect their staff to keep to them, however picky and pedantic they may seem. For all the craze of "smart casual", a number of businesses still expect formal dress at all times - just look at the number of suits in Canary Wharf or similar business districts compared to "smart casual".
I was told during my time working in retail that my 13 hours a week only qualified me for one uniform shirt. The fact that my hours were Saturday and Sunday was irrelevant. I was barely in the door before it had to be in the wash if I wanted it ready for the following day.

There is definitely a right way and a wrong way to talk to staff about "infractions", and there is no doubt that how the supervisor goes about it will determine how the employee feels about the interaction, but dress codes and company expectations thereof are just a fact of life.

 

[RT4038]

There is definitely a right way and a wrong way to talk to staff about "infractions", and there is no doubt that how the supervisor goes about it will determine how the employee feels about the interaction, but dress codes and company expectations thereof are just a fact of life.

And in every bus depot there are those who have to be spoken to time after time after time, frequently 'forgetting' as they continually try to push the boundaries. If you follow the rules, by and large you won't have a problem. If you don't like the rules, either try and get them changed officially, or get another job that suits you better.

 

[Pat1105]

With regards to uniform as a whole, I think it plays an important part in portraying a quality and professional image to the customer. Think of it like this: what image does the operator show if their driver is wearing jeans and a t shirt, or a smart company uniform? All too often, I have seen drivers of not only small operators, but larger ones looking scruffy. Some even tuck their ties into their shirt. At the end of the day, management just want things to be adhered to. They want their drivers to look smart to portray a professional image. I must admit though, i’d be slightly annoyed if management told me they’d be watching me for one simple mistake.

 

[Geordie driver]

At the end of the day, management just want things to be adhered to.

In my experience they only want their drivers to adhere to the rules and then only when it suits the company. I am fairly sure inspectors are supposed to help drivers requesting help, but they didn't and booked me.

Treating staff like this has become normalised and it's wrong.

 

[RT4038]

In my experience they only want their drivers to adhere to the rules and then only when it suits the company. I am fairly sure inspectors are supposed to help drivers requesting help, but they didn't and booked me.

Treating staff like this has become normalised and it's wrong.

It really sounds like bus work is just not for you! Without knowing the full details of your incident (both from your point of view and that of the Inspectors) it is very difficult to form an opinion. Whilst Inspectors would be expected to assist drivers in difficulty, they are not there to do the Drivers job.

 

[Statto]

It really sounds like bus work is just not for you! Without knowing the full details of your incident (both from your point of view and that of the Inspectors) it is very difficult to form an opinion. Whilst Inspectors would be expected to assist drivers in difficulty, they are not there to do the Drivers job.

Yep, whilst it might seem petty, when you're working as a bus driver you're representing that company, & they want to be seen in a good light[smart uniform is one of those], so all the main[& some small ones] companies will have official uniforms, that must be worn at all times from when you enter the depot to start your shift to leaving the depot when the shift ends.

Arriva sis an odd one, most of the drivers wear Arriva issued polo shirts, rather than shirt & tie, which does look quite nice, but feels like the drivers are going to the golf course rather than driving a bus.

 

[Geordie driver]

It really sounds like bus work is just not for you! Without knowing the full details of your incident (both from your point of view and that of the Inspectors) it is very difficult to form an opinion. Whilst Inspectors would be expected to assist drivers in difficulty, they are not there to do the Drivers job.

Revenue protection is not their job? I was there 19 years and loved it, apart from petty management bullies.

May I ask how long you have worked as a bus driver?

 

[M60lad]

I think quite a few smaller companies go for the Polo Shirt approach rather than the usual shirt & tie, I know D&G are one, some drivers wear a white shirt with the D&G tie whereas others just wear a polo shirt.

As for Arriva the Polo Shirt was up until a number of years ago classed as Summer Uniform at other times all Arriva Drivers had to wear the Shirt & Tie, now it seems and has been for a while now that the Polo Shirt can be worn all year round.

 

[RT4038]

Revenue protection is not their job? I was there 19 years and loved it, apart from petty management bullies.

May I ask how long you have worked as a bus driver?

In my 46 years in the industry (both on the road and in management), I have long ago learnt that there are two (or more) sides to every story, and the 'truth' somewhere between. I have learnt that there are good, bad and middling people in every grade [including me, whom different people will put in different categories!], and I am sure that this is true in any industry/job that you might do. Some of the bad people are incompetent, some are willful for whatever reason and some in between.

Every job has its rules and procedures, none more than those industries where the employees are working at precise times and routes, on their own, away from supervision, collecting money from individuals for an unaccountable product. These rules and procedures have evolved over the years following losses (reputationally and financial) caused by both incompetence, ignorance or willful actions. However, they cannot cover every possible situation without there being inconsistencies and idiosyncrasies. A busman understands and accepts this, or will not be happy in the job.

Nobody likes every rule and procedure that must be adhered to, but like everything in life there are some things that you just have to suck up. The alternative is a running battle with supervisors and management, which eventually ends in tears. I've seen it so often. Even the best people forget to comply with this or that - take it on the chin, make sure you don't do it again too regularly, and move on. No big deal.

As I said before, without knowing the full details of your incident (both from your point of view and that of the Inspectors) it is very difficult to form an opinion. Not every Inspector is a paragon of virtue, but then neither is every driver. Inspectors are generally promoted Drivers/Conductors and I would expect them to have a very clear view of their responsibilities in 'assisting' drivers. However, there are lots of undercurrents in this relationship. Maybe a stint as an Inspector would assist in seeing the world from their view?

 

[Geordie driver]

Fair enough, I was asked to be an inspector but I knew they were not interested in helping the drivers. In 19 years I never saw a passenger dealt with for not paying or over riding. 19 years! I couldn't afford the pay cut either.

I don't think the OP has a problem with being asked to wear his tie, it's the manner he was spoken to.

You will be aware that wages and conditions have changed massively over the years, hence my advice to get out.

To the OP, as in all jobs you get managers who over think their position and authority. Wait a while, one day he will need a favour, it's the way the industry works, just don't go out of your way to help him.

 

[GusB]

Yes, there are certainly more diplomatic ways to deal with employees who have committed minor infractions. Perhaps a simple "oh, mind your tie before you set off" would have been more appropriate in this case. From experience (not in the bus industry), there are supervisors who get more from staff by being pleasant, and there are the grumpy gits.

@RT4038 sums things up quite well, and I think this would be a good opportunity to bring his thread to a close.