Rules on purchasing an excess fare

[gmanuk]

I’m hoping someone with fares knowledge can clarify a point.

On 7 June 2026 I used the National Rail website to book travel from Exeter St Davids to Harrow-on-the-Hill (LU), departing on 10 June. I selected "Open Return" on the National Rail website, was redirected to GWR to complete the booking, and purchased a Super Off-Peak Day Travelcard (£124.70).

When I collected the ticket before travelling, I realised it was only valid as a one-day return. I explained the situation at the GWR ticket office. I was advised to buy an Open Return (£125.40), not use the original ticket, and submit a refund claim for the unused ticket the same day. I did exactly that.

GWR has since refused the refund, saying tickets purchased in error are not refundable under the current National Rail refund conditions.

My question is: before I started my journey, could the ticket office have changed my existing ticket to an Open Return (for example by issuing an excess fare or other amendment), or was buying a completely new ticket the only option?

Do you have any other recommendations? I'm £124.70 out of pocket!

Thanks!

 

[speedy1]

If it were me, I would reply to them making it clear you are not seeking a discretionary refund for a ticket purchased in error; rather, the GWR staff expressly instructed you to buy another ticket and assured you to claim a refund for the unused one, advice which you relied on to your financial detriment. Further, they did not provide any warning that the refund may be denied.

They may have interpreted your request under the National Rail Conditions of Travel section for a discretionary refund before travel, whereas you need to clear that up, and perhaps imply a possible breach of contract and suggest the service was not provided with reasonable care and skill, as required by section 49 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

 

[tutacre]

Couple of points:

1) An Open Return doesn't have the definition in rail that some people think it does - it doesn't mean 30 days etc. Most major systems now treat an "open return" as a flexible return leg, either same day or longer. There obviously used to be an "Open Return" ticket type specifically, but that has been done away with now for over a decade. GWR are probably correct that this is your error, as you misunderstood what an Open Return actually is/was - but there is an argument that could be made about whether the definition of "open" which has now been around for a good few years is unclear given the prior historical interpretation of that.

2) I'm pretty sure you can't get a Travelcard (other than a season) with more than 1 day validity in any event these days either.

 

[gmanuk]

Thank you both, @tutacre and @speedy1, for your considered responses.

 

[Watershed]

In terms of an excess, it is possible to get these from one ticket type to another and this is what I would have expected the ticket office at Exeter to do. They are designed for exactly this kind of situation and a change of ticket type excess (if, let's say, you wanted to travel at a time when the Super Off-Peak ticket wouldn't have been valid) is something you are contractually entitled to. Therefore their refusal to issue one and consequent charging of a brand new ticket was a plain breach of the wording of the contract, regardless of whether the services were provided with care and skill or not.

Separately, there would also be grounds for an 'exceptional circumstances' refund under condition 29.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT). Now this theoretically requires proof of non-use, but it obviously isn't possible to prove a negative. The fact that you bought another ticket for the same journey, and that the original wasn't inserted into any barriers (which can, theoretically speaking, be verified by reading the magnetic strip), would be more than enough evidence in my view.

With at least two grounds for a refund it is certainly worth pursuing this.

 

[speedy1]

@gmanuk ^ Watershed is an expert here - take their advice

 

[Haywain]

I disagree with @Watershed about an excess because a One Day Travelcard was involved. However, I would have expected the ticket office to deal with this on a 'refund and rebook' basis and not leave you to deal with the refund part, especially as you purchased from (ostensibly) the same company.

 

[Watershed]

I disagree with @Watershed about an excess because a One Day Travelcard was involved. However, I would have expected the ticket office to deal with this on a 'refund and rebook' basis and not leave you to deal with the refund part, especially as you purchased from (ostensibly) the same company.

Whilst in terms of internal industry procedures a Travelcard may be handled differently, there is nothing in the NRCoT that excludes Travelcards from excesses.

 

[gmanuk]

Thanks @Watershed! Thanks also @Haywain .

 

[voyagerdude220]

I disagree with @Watershed about an excess because a One Day Travelcard was involved. However, I would have expected the ticket office to deal with this on a 'refund and rebook' basis and not leave you to deal with the refund part, especially as you purchased from (ostensibly) the same company.

Admittedly I've never issued an excess fare in conjunction with an original ticket which contains a Travelcard add on. In the OP's scenario with myself being Ticket Office staff, I'd have to seek advice from other Colleagues/look to see if the Manual states anything specific about issuing excess fares with Travelcards involved.

If I felt I was unable to issue the excess, I'd have done what the Ticket Office staff the OP dealt with stated- referred them to their retailer for a refund, but clearly they've refused a refund.

I suspect as others have alluded that the refusal by GWR to refuse the OP's original ticket in these circumstances is human error, but how do you go about getting this sorted/convincing them to change their mind?

If the ticket had been purchased from my Ticket Office I would have tried to obtain authority to refund it myself but I'm not sure if permission was to be granted whether I'd be able to do it myself, I know the rare time this has happened where I work since the refund rules changed, customers have been referred to our Customer Service team.

 

[gmanuk]

Thanks @voyagerdude220 ! I've written to GWR again following all the advice given here. Fingers crossed.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Thanks @voyagerdude220 ! I've written to GWR again following all the advice given here. Fingers crossed.

You're welcome. Fingers crossed that they see sense and agree to refund you what they owe you.

 

[bb21]

Whilst in terms of internal industry procedures a Travelcard may be handled differently, there is nothing in the NRCoT that excludes Travelcards from excesses.

There is no entitlement in the NRCoT to an excess fare, especially for the OP's specific circumstance. There is also no process for excessing a Travelcard into/out of a return.

Therefore the correct process for the OP is a refund and re-issue, hopefully without an admin charge.

 

[Watershed]

There is no entitlement in the NRCoT to an excess fare, especially for the OP's specific circumstance. There is also no process for excessing a Travelcard into/out of a return.

Therefore the correct process for the OP is a refund and re-issue, hopefully without an admin charge.

There absolutely is an entitlement to change their ticket to an Off-Peak ticket, see condition 9.5.1. That this involves changing from a Day Travelcard to a period return is just a convenient side effect.

 

[bb21]

There absolutely is an entitlement to change their ticket to an Off-Peak ticket, see condition 9.5.1. That this involves changing from a Day Travelcard to a period return is just a convenient side effect.

9.5.1 very much does not apply in their circumstance.

using a Ticket that is correctly dated but restricted for use at a range of times other than the service on which you are travelling (this does not include Tickets which are valid only on a specific timed train service or train services);

 

[Watershed]

9.5.1 very much does not apply in their circumstance.

Why would it not apply? The OP could have the intention of returning on a restricted service.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Why would it not apply? The OP could have the intention of returning on a restricted service.

I'm 90% sure the most common Ticket Office TIS will only allow a Day Travelcard to be Excessed to another Day Travelcard.

If you want to extend the Period of Validity or change the destination from London Zones 1-6 to London Underground/DLR Zones 1-6 (or anything less than 1-6) you need to refund and reissue, which requires the original retailer to process the refund.

That said, I'm not in front of a machine to check.

 

[Watershed]

I'm 90% sure the most common Ticket Office TIS will only allow a Day Travelcard to be Excessed to another Day Travelcard.

If you want to extend the Period of Validity or change the destination from London Zones 1-6 to London Underground/DLR Zones 1-6 (or anything less than 1-6) you need to refund and reissue, which requires the original retailer to process the refund.

That said, I'm not in front of a machine to check.

I agree that this is the internal procedure but it doesn't affect the customer's rights as set out in the NRCoT.

 

[gmanuk]

Thanks all for your help with this. I'm happy to say that GWR offered a reimbursement as a gesture of goodwill. I will be extra careful in the future to ensure I don't find myself in this situation!

 

[speedy1]

Great result. Don't be too quick to believe their "gesture of good will" comment as there's a case to be made it was an entitlement, should it happen again, because it's highly doubtful they've put out a memo to staff about this ...