Rules and procedures questions

[Drivingtales]

I got asked this today, and I can't really come up with an answer as a guard:

Name a railway rule or procedure that you don't necessarily agree with, but you do it because you have to.

Serious answers only

Driver and guards, please help!

 

[greatkingrat]

Running brake tests. I can see the need with freight/loco-hauled services, but for modern multiple units they are of little value.

 

[Drivingtales]

Running brake tests. I can see the need with freight/loco-hauled services, but for modern multiple units they are of little value.

Can you elaborate? Why a freight train but not a multiple unit?

 

[800301]

Can you elaborate? Why a freight train but not a multiple unit?

A freight train has more variables as each wagon is connected manually.

A multiple unit, the connection throughout the train is semi permanent and would only be disabled if required and very unlikely by mistake, and generally with more modern trains if there is a brake fault or it isn’t happy it just won’t release the brakes in the first place, generally with a few exceptions class 80x being one, the brake system is very reliable and consistent in the way it operates.

The 80x I mention as an exception because the way the brake percentage along with brake force is calculated and applied is slightly different so each train has slight variations but generally they all stop the same, it’s just more noticeable as the power brake controller is a variable one and minimum brake in one unit can be far different to minimum brake in another

 

[Drivingtales]

If anyone has any examples from a guards point of view that would be helpful....

 

[trentside]

Running brake tests. I can see the need with freight/loco-hauled services, but for modern multiple units they are of little value.

I have to disagree with this one. It gives an early indicator of brake performance which can vary between units. I do mine in set locations, compliant with our PDP, so it is noticeable if a unit has a softer brake and I can account for it at the next stop. It’s also useful for checking the railhead conditions.

 

[GB]

I would suggest single horn tone at whistle boards. Should be two-tone to give a clear indication of a train and not a lorry.

 

[trentside]

I would suggest single horn tone at whistle boards. Should be two-tone to give a clear indication of a train and not a lorry.

Yes! I was struggling to think of examples I disagreed with but thank you. Of course you can sound the horn as you see necessary - and I’ve been told by my manager he considers it a matter for us to decide, if we feel a warning board requires a two tone, we should do it.

ASLEF also disagrees with the low tone only rule.

 

[LowLevel]

As a guard - at some locations you might have to dispatch from a certain position in the train. I might not agree with the exact positioning, but if one is specified in company specific instructions then I'd go along with it.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

If anyone has any examples from a guards point of view that would be helpful....

Having to blow a whistle during dispatch every time, regardless of station or time of day.

In practice, I don't - I see it as a tool to aid dispatch and I see no benefit in doing so at a rural station late at night with nobody on the platform, however it is something I am assessed on.

 

[Drivingtales]

Having to blow a whistle during dispatch every time, regardless of station or time of day.

In practice, I don't - I see it as a tool to aid dispatch and I see no benefit in doing so at a rural station late at night with nobody on the platform, however it is something I am assessed on.

Is that in the rule book??

 

[Harpo]

There are questionable door opening procedures that have given rise to some very inflated dwell times.

 

[Drivingtales]

As a guard - at some locations you might have to dispatch from a certain position in the train. I might not agree with the exact positioning, but if one is specified in company specific instructions then I'd go along with it.

That's a very good one!!

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Is that in the rule book??

I'm not too sure - I wouldn't think so as (I've heard) some TOCs don't even permit use of a whistle whilst dispatching, however it's company-specific policy for guards at my TOC.

 

[Kite159]

I'm not too sure - I wouldn't think so as (I've heard) some TOCs don't even permit use of a whistle whilst dispatching, however it's company-specific policy for guards at my TOC.

I'm pretty sure GWR staff don't use whistles.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I'm pretty sure GWR staff don't use whistles.

Yes, that was the TOC I had in mind for not using whistles.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Signalling background here

Far, far too much physical paperwork. Reliable digital solutions for record keeping and engineering operations have existed for decades and we should be using them now, not wasting time filling in unergonomic forms and occurrence books for no tangible safety benefit whilst trying to run a busy railway

Also on the guard’s side some TOCs don’t let guards put their heads out of droplight windows, even where provided, to observe the PTI on arrival/departure. Never really got that one.

Also also I suppose with guards a lot of this kind of thing would from ticketing. There isn’t really any moral justification for a lot of the arbitrary fare rules on the network, so it’s quite possible that a lot of guards feel uncomfortable enforcing them.

 

[AverageJoe]

Neither a rule or procedure but I disagree with SPATE boards having an associated magnet.

Running the risk of a fail to cancel just to be alerted to the fact their is nothing to be alerted to.

I get it that the board needs to be there because those that are keen enough to know a restriction has terminated early might think the board has fallen down or been stolen, but the magnet is a step to far for me considering the risks it brings.

 

[DoubleO]

Emergency protection - only laying a TCOD on your own line if fully derailed. If you had such a serious incident you'd hardly want to walk the full length of the train to check if a single bogie or axle is still on the rails. Just put the TCOD down anyway. Takes seconds, belt and braces.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Feb 2026 ==

Running brake tests. I can see the need with freight/loco-hauled services, but for modern multiple units they are of little value.

I also disagree with this. It is unusual to get much variation in brakes on modern MUs, but it can be an excellent indicator of adhesion levels.

 

[Stossgebet]

DOO!

 

[trundlewagon]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Feb 2026 ==


I also disagree with this. It is unusual to get much variation in brakes on modern MUs, but it can be an excellent indicator of adhesion levels.

'Additional' running brake tests are useful for testing adhesion in known and suspected dodgy areas but the mandated RBT as soon as you take over a train or change ends (, etc, etc) isn't necessarily going to be much use for that purpose.

 

[DoubleO]

'Additional' running brake tests are useful for testing adhesion in known and suspected dodgy areas but the mandated RBT as soon as you take over a train or change ends (, etc, etc) isn't necessarily going to be much use for that purpose.

I will politely disagree

 

[trundlewagon]

I guess your mileage may vary with it depending on where you're relieving a train

 

[Archvile]

I do my RBTs at the same place and speed every time. I then have a reference point a couple of hundred metres later where I expect the speed of the train to be 'xyz' mph.
Based on whether the actual speed at this point is plus or minus versus what is expected, and by how much, is an excellent indicator of how that particular set performs.
40% brake on some of our sets is the same as 20% on others, and vice versa.

 

[trentside]

I do my RBTs at the same place and speed every time. I then have a reference point a couple of hundred metres later where I expect the speed of the train to be 'xyz' mph.
Based on whether the actual speed at this point is plus or minus versus what is expected, and by how much, is an excellent indicator of how that particular set performs.
40% brake on some of our sets is the same as 20% on others, and vice versa.

This mirrors what I do, pretty much. I tend to have benchmark speeds that I expect that will tell me if a unit is performing below par. I had one the other day that was falling significantly short which I ended up reporting for low power as a result.

The units I drive certainly don’t perform identically!

 

[Archvile]

This mirrors what I do, pretty much. I tend to have benchmark speeds that I expect that will tell me if a unit is performing below par. I had one the other day that was falling significantly short which I ended up reporting for low power as a result.

The units I drive certainly don’t perform identically!

Oh yes, I do it the other way as well! Taking full power on a dry day, you can usually rely on being within 1 mph of particular speeds at particular points. If it's much less than that, and adhesion is good, I suspect something's up with the set.

 

[Harpo]

The units I drive certainly don’t perform identically!

I’ve had so many conversations over the last forty years or so with a huge variety of traction - ‘With a good ‘un I can be doing xxx mph here’.

The only difference to today is that ‘xxx’ will often have been more than the PSR or traction’s stated max speed at that time.

Then there’s braking variations.

 

[43367]

I got asked this today, and I can't really come up with an answer as a guard:

Name a railway rule or procedure that you don't necessarily agree with, but you do it because you have to.

Serious answers only

Driver and guards, please help!

Complying with company ticket policy. Having to charge passengers travelling on wrong trains with train specific tickets.
I know it’s down to discretion, but you could pretend to be a company person who does everything by the book.

 

[district]

Is that in the rule book??

Will be a local TOC instruction. For example, at my TOC, the guard doesn’t blow a whistle at a station with platform dispatch.

 

[Undiscovered]

Guard.

In some situations, closing the doors on a red.Especially at mandatory dispatch stations.

If I'm already full and standing, and we're beyond departure time, I have to keep my doors open, allowing more folks on board. Then, when we do get the road, I have to go along the platform,possibly getting people to leave the service, so we can depart.

Once departure time comes, and goes, 'departed' services should be removed from the board and doors closed. However, if we haven't moved for two minutes, or so, I accept that there should be a door release to allow fresh air in etc. Requires excellent Comms from Traincrew to execute.