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Rugby Union

Kite159

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It's madness, worst than Wimbledon moving to Milton Keynes.

Although I wonder how many London rugby fans will switch to Harlequins, or London Irish
 
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WelshBluebird

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It's simply wrong IMO. Same reason that the whole MK Dons thing in football was wrong. And why I don't really agree with London Welsh playing in Oxford.
Is there any way the RFU (or whatever) can block this? Or are they supportive of the move?
 

Greenback

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Each of the Premiership clubs has a defined geographic area from were they recruit into their academy. Wasps currently cover Middlesex, Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire. How this will work with a move to Coventry is anyone's guess.

Indeed, in Wales we have the defined geographical areas too. But it would be completely unthinkable for the Dragons to suddenly decide to move to Llandudno (for example!) and I would hope that even if any such ridiculous move were ever to be mooted, it wouldn't be sanctioned by the WRU.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Indeed, in Wales we have the defined geographical areas too. But it would be completely unthinkable for the Dragons to suddenly decide to move to Llandudno (for example!) and I would hope that even if any such ridiculous move were ever to be mooted, it wouldn't be sanctioned by the WRU.

Whilst we are on the subject of playing games a long distance away from the usual area, may I be allowed to have an "off-thread/different thread" moment knowing that our residential druidical moderator is a regular contributor to sports threads and ask how it is that Glamorgan play some County Cricket games in such a well known south Wales settlement as Colwyn Bay...:D
 

Greenback

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Money! Glamorgan liked to play against Lancashire in Colwyn Bay as it meant a shorter journey for Lancs supporters. The county justified this by saying that they were really the Wales team not a county team, despite their name, and they were helping Welsh cricket by taking the game to north Wales.

Make of that what you will, but playing an occasional game in a different part of the country is a far cry from a complete relocation as Wasps are doing :cry:
 

Hornet

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Indeed, in Wales we have the defined geographical areas too. But it would be completely unthinkable for the Dragons to suddenly decide to move to Llandudno (for example!) and I would hope that even if any such ridiculous move were ever to be mooted, it wouldn't be sanctioned by the WRU.

Worcester Warriors are extremely unhappy about the Wasps move. Warriors Statement :-

"In response to the recent developments concerning Wasps investing in the Ricoh Arena, Coventry, Worcester Warriors can confirm that the club is seeking clarification on a number of fronts from PRL and the RFU. Most importantly, these concern how Wasps' fan engagement and community programmes will sit alongside the significant investment we have made in our current academy programmes in the area without conflict."

Wasps are reported to be moving their Academy structure up to Coventry in the 2015/16 season. I would not be surprised if the two big guns in the East Midlands are not on to the PRL/RFU about this as this could impact on their Academies as well.

Regards the Welsh Regions, I remember Scarlets playing Leinster in a Celtic League game in Wrexham in 2004. I believe that the Scarlets Region included North Wales at that time. It may still do.
 
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Greenback

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Regards the Welsh Regions, I remember Scarlets playing Leinster in a Celtic League game in Wrexham in 2004. I believe that the Scarlets Region included North Wales at that time. It may still do.

Nominally, it does include north Wales, but playing games away from Llanelli was abandoned when the new Parc y Scarlets stadium opened, if not before.

As Welsh regions receive a lot of their income from the WRU, I think that would put the block on any Wasps type move, not that I think it would ever be proposed seriously.
 

Hornet

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Nominally, it does include north Wales, but playing games away from Llanelli was abandoned when the new Parc y Scarlets stadium opened, if not before.

As Welsh regions receive a lot of their income from the WRU, I think that would put the block on any Wasps type move, not that I think it would ever be proposed seriously.

The Welsh seems to be at the beginning of a move towards the Centrally Contracted Player model that is used, very successfully, by the IRFU. The Welsh regions have lost a lot of top quality players to other teams, notably the French Top 14. I would suggest that you are more likely to retain your best players if they are tied down to Central Contracts than 'Region' Contracts. Leinster have been approached by French Clubs for some of our top players. Apart from Sexton, (which was a massive blunder by the IRFU), we've held on to our star players. Of course there needs to be some consideration given to the O's, Blues, Scarlets and Dragons team and RRW about Centrally Contracting. I get the feeling that RRW will battle against this move, but in the longer term it would be good for National and Regional success. PRO12 certainly needs the Welsh teams to be more competitive in the league and hopefully more success in the PRO12 and Europe.
 

Greenback

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I've been arguing for central contracts for years, so I'm very pleased to see the move in that direction. Without international their wouldn't be pro rugby at all in Wales, so I have always believed that the national team should come first.

When the regions were set up over a decade ago, I wanted to see proper regions rather than superclubs. North Wales produces some good rugby players, but there is no opportunity any longer to see top flight pro games in the area. We should have had west, south, east and north teams, although it's fair to say that not all rugby fans here agree with that (especially in my neck of the words, where Llanelli refused to be merged with Swansea and Neath to form a western region!)
 

Hadders

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The regional model works in Ireland because there was a log history of playing for the provinces.

I do foresee issues in the future though. Central contracts mean that the IRFU decide when their players play for their province, for how long and in what position. Suppose Leinster are 8th in the Pro-12, needing a wins in the final few rounds to have a hope of 7th place and a berth in the Champions Cup for the following season. Will the IRFU let the centrally contracted players play unhindered? This was never an issue in the past under the previous European regime as Leinster automatically qualified for the Heineken Cup regardless of where they finished in the league.

England did have a regional set up in amateur days eg. the North, Midlands, South West etc. and this could have formed the basis of professional rugby when the game turned professional in the mid 1990's. Instead the RFU decided to stall on turning professional, the clubs step went professional in the meantime and the rest is history. It will never change - can you imagine merging Northampton and Leicester into a regional side - wouldn't happen.

As for Wales as far as I am aware there was never any history of regional or provincial rugby and 'manufactured' teams will never work as there is no loyalty towards them.
 

Hornet

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The regional model works in Ireland because there was a log history of playing for the provinces.

I do foresee issues in the future though. Central contracts mean that the IRFU decide when their players play for their province, for how long and in what position. Suppose Leinster are 8th in the Pro-12, needing a wins in the final few rounds to have a hope of 7th place and a berth in the Champions Cup for the following season. Will the IRFU let the centrally contracted players play unhindered? This was never an issue in the past under the previous European regime as Leinster automatically qualified for the Heineken Cup regardless of where they finished in the league.

England did have a regional set up in amateur days eg. the North, Midlands, South West etc. and this could have formed the basis of professional rugby when the game turned professional in the mid 1990's. Instead the RFU decided to stall on turning professional, the clubs step went professional in the meantime and the rest is history. It will never change - can you imagine merging Northampton and Leicester into a regional side - wouldn't happen.

As for Wales as far as I am aware there was never any history of regional or provincial rugby and 'manufactured' teams will never work as there is no loyalty towards them.

The regional set up in Wales didn't seem to be thought through when being set up. The Irish Provinces have had well over 100 years of experience. Because they have a geographical relevence, it makes it much easier for fans to have an emotional attachment to a Province. With Welsh (and Scottish) club history, trying to form 'Franchises' on a regional basis was bound to be fraught with problems. Borders suffered greatly before they folded, with local fans supporting their teams in greater numbers than the franchise. I believe Pontypridd crowds can be greater than the Blues on occasions.

Regarding the HEC, Leinster were never guaranteed a spot. If they had finished bottom of the pile and a Welsh team had won the HEC then another Welsh team would have moved into a HEC spot with Leinster going into the ACC/PPC. During the years that Leinster won the HEC the lowest they finished in the league was third. Using the merit based system (not a true merit based system, granted, to allow for all top tier European countries to have at least one Club in Europe's top competition), that is in place today they would have qualified by right. Even a true merit based system, they would have qualified by right. Fair or unfair, the rules for HEC qualification at the time were signed off by all parties.

The primary purpose of the Irish provinces is to provide players for the National team, as the biggest revenues for the IRFU are earned through International games. The IRFU would have a cut of any monies earned by the provinces in European games, though I am not sure of the exact figure. If Leinster (or Munster or Ulster for that matter) were to get to a point where they may miss European qualification, I would not see the IRFU relaxing their rules regards player release. More likely there would serious questions asked of the coaching staff as to why these teams were underperforming. Anyway player release is pretty flexible at the moment.

I remember reading in a Saracens programme in the late 90's, Nigel Wray's assertion that promotion and relegation should be axed. That of course is a decision for the PRL/RFU if that point of view still exist's. I can see the merit's of both arguments. In the PRO12 each country has to decide on what is the best model for their teams to compete at the higest level of club rugby. Would it have been better to bring clubs like Llanelli, Neath, Pontypridd and Newport in Wales, Hawick and Melrose in Scotland and Viadana and Treviso in Italy up to the next level and have them in a PRO12 league with the historical Irish provinces? It might have got the backing of more fans.

The winning of the HEC by both Munster and Leinster has had a massive positive reaction in Ireland, where Rugby is only the fourth most popular team sport, after Gaelic Football, Hurling and Soccer. Rugby is the only team sport in Ireland which competes at the same level with it's peers at World and European level, although it still suffers from the parochial view of sport that many people in Ireland have. (Some in the GAA still consider it as a 'foreign sport'). Leinster have gone from around a thousand season ticket holders in 2004 to over twelve thousand this season. Compare that to Wasps, whose season ticket sales this season were two thousand, eight hundred. What figure for their sales next season, nobody knows.

In Wasps we are seeing the beginnings of the 'Franchise' model in English Rugby. Personally I think Wasps is just being used as a vehicle by the current owner for other interests. Much as I hate to say it I really cannot see Wasps surviving much beyond the next five years, as I believe once the current owner has acheived his aim, he will try and get rid of his least performing asset. I hpe i'm wrong, but I just feel an inevitability about it all.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Championship side Nottingham will leave Meadow Lane in 2015 and move to their Lady Bay Sports Ground. They have only been attracting an average of 1,200 in over 20,000 capacity Meadow Lane stadium.

However, should promotion to the Premiership occur, matters will be reconsidered.
 

Greenback

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The regional model works in Ireland because there was a log history of playing for the provinces.

Absolutely right.

As for Wales as far as I am aware there was never any history of regional or provincial rugby and 'manufactured' teams will never work as there is no loyalty towards them.

There was a form of county level matches (eg Galmorgan v Monmouthshire) and a few regional games (eg West Wales v East Wales).

Unfortunately, these weren't that popular as people preferred to watch club sides, except when the 'regions' or 'counties' were playing against international touring sides!

The regional set up in Wales didn't seem to be thought through when being set up. The Irish Provinces have had well over 100 years of experience. Because they have a geographical relevence, it makes it much easier for fans to have an emotional attachment to a Province. With Welsh (and Scottish) club history, trying to form 'Franchises' on a regional basis was bound to be fraught with problems. Borders suffered greatly before they folded, with local fans supporting their teams in greater numbers than the franchise. I believe Pontypridd crowds can be greater than the Blues on occasions.

Pretty much right. The WRU made a mess of regionalisation, as they pandered to the big clubs (even though both Cardiff and Swansea had rebelled against the union and several clubs had been or were, in the financial do-do's to a very serious degree) who didn't want to lose their identity.

What we have now is the worst of both worlds. The Blues are Cardiff, the Dragions are Newport and the Scarlets are Llanelli. None attract decent crowds. Arguably, only the Ospreys have created a new identity, and that has been a bit of a struggle at times.

What I would have preferred, would have been totally new creations on a geographical basis, based on the Caerdiff, Swansea and Pontypridd in the south and a town in the north where a development region would be based. It wouldn't have been easy, there would have been plenty of tears along the way, but I feel the end result would have been better than what we are stuck with here now.

I remember reading in a Saracens programme in the late 90's, Nigel Wray's assertion that promotion and relegation should be axed. That of course is a decision for the PRL/RFU if that point of view still exist's. I can see the merit's of both arguments. In the PRO12 each country has to decide on what is the best model for their teams to compete at the higest level of club rugby. Would it have been better to bring clubs like Llanelli, Neath, Pontypridd and Newport in Wales, Hawick and Melrose in Scotland and Viadana and Treviso in Italy up to the next level and have them in a PRO12 league with the historical Irish provinces? It might have got the backing of more fans.

That would probably have been better than the mess we have now, too. It's always rankled me a bit that having decide to keep promotion and relegation, the English clubs then complain about it!

In Wasps we are seeing the beginnings of the 'Franchise' model in English Rugby. Personally I think Wasps is just being used as a vehicle by the current owner for other interests. Much as I hate to say it I really cannot see Wasps surviving much beyond the next five years, as I believe once the current owner has acheived his aim, he will try and get rid of his least performing asset. I hpe i'm wrong, but I just feel an inevitability about it all.

Whatever happens, the fans are being sold down the river. It should not be allowed to happen.
 

Hadders

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Regarding the HEC, Leinster were never guaranteed a spot. If they had finished bottom of the pile and a Welsh team had won the HEC then another Welsh team would have moved into a HEC spot with Leinster going into the ACC/PPC. During the years that Leinster won the HEC the lowest they finished in the league was third. Using the merit based system (not a true merit based system, granted, to allow for all top tier European countries to have at least one Club in Europe's top competition), that is in place today they would have qualified by right. Even a true merit based system, they would have qualified by right. Fair or unfair, the rules for HEC qualification at the time were signed off by all parties.

This is correct but overlooks the fact that Connacht were funded at half the level of the other three provinces by the IRFU so in reality there was never any danger of any province other than Connacht finishing lowest of the Irish teams.

What we have now, while not perfect is a far fairer qualification system.

I remember reading in a Saracens programme in the late 90's, Nigel Wray's assertion that promotion and relegation should be axed.

I can understand why Nigel Wray would say this having invested £millions of his own money into Saracens which could be completely wiped out if the team was relegated. Rugby is not a wealthy sport and there is only one professional league in England (unlike football which supports four fully professional leagues).

On balance I do think promotion and relegation is a good thing. Look at Exeter who had the ambition and drive to get promoted to the Premiership. They have been a breath of fresh air since they arrived and would it really woilsn't be right to close the door to these clubs. Also, what does it say for the integrity of the competition if the team finishing bottom simply retains its place year after year.

In Wasps we are seeing the beginnings of the 'Franchise' model in English Rugby. Personally I think Wasps is just being used as a vehicle by the current owner for other interests. Much as I hate to say it I really cannot see Wasps surviving much beyond the next five years, as I believe once the current owner has acheived his aim, he will try and get rid of his least performing asset. I hpe i'm wrong, but I just feel an inevitability about it all.

What's happening at Wasps is an absolute disgrace. I suspect this is really a property transaction. Buy a stadium on the cheap and in a few years time sell it on for a vast profit and in the process cast the rugby team adrift. Wasps are a way of fronting up the deal and a good way of doing it in a tax efficient way as the huge losses of the rugby club can be offset against the profits of the rest of what they've just bought.
 
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fgwrich

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On balance I do think promotion and relegation is a good thing. Look at Exeter who had the ambition and drive to get promoted to the Premiership. They have been a breath of fresh air since they arrived and would it really woilsn't be right to close the door to these clubs. Also, what does it say for the integrity of the competition if the team finishing bottom simply retains its place year after year.



What's happening at Wasps is an absolute disgrace. I suspect this is really a property transaction. Buy a stadium on the cheap and in a few years time sell it on for a vast profit and in the process cast the rugby team adrift. Wasps are a way of fronting up the deal and a good way of doing it in a tax efficient way as the huge losses of the rugby club can be offset against the profits of the rest of what they've just bought.

http://www.therugbyblog.com/was-richardsons-wasps-takeover-just-a-step-on-the-road-to-the-ricoh

Funny that you should say that, I linked to this article from The Rugby Blog - Itself originated from Wasps Supporters own forum a few days ago that also has a very strong eye on the idea that this move to Coventry is just a front for a property transaction. Even former Wasps Lock Simon Shaw has visited the club in recent times on a few occasions and noticed how Wasps have trouble trying to fill Adams Park - Let alone a move to a 30,000 Seat Stadium. It's something I've noticed at the Majeski over the past few seasons, and how different, how almost cold the atmosphere can get when you see that the North Stand is Empty and out of use, The East Stand about half/ 3/4s full, South Stand about Half. As a supporter it's I don't know, odd. As a player (I've never had the fortune of playing in a stadium like the Madjeski I might add, yet!) I wouldn't find it say confidence filling to play for a premiership team in a stadium that's at best half full, at worst about a 1/3rd.

As for Chiefs, That is one reason why I'm proud to support them. Their style of play is almost always a breath of fresh air and a pleasure to watch, the honesty from Head Coach Rob Baxter is something other clubs should really aspire too (I'm very much thinking of you Richard Cockerill!), as is the Exeter Chiefs behind the scenes - The Academy Set Up, the regular meetings with the players in Exeter's Princesshay for example. There's a lot I like and admire about them both on and off the pitch.
 

Noddy

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In Wasps we are seeing the beginnings of the 'Franchise' model in English Rugby.

I think there has been an effective franchise model in operation for years. Saracens, Wasps and Irish all played away from London. And during the 2000s there were the 13 clubs who controlled all the Premiership Rugby Ltd A and B shares (you know who they are!). The thirteenth club played in the Division 1 but because they were still a shareholder they also got a massive payout, inevitably won the 1st division and were promoted back in the premiership. And even if they didn't win rules meant that clubs without facilities meeting a certain standard were not allowed to be promoted. The thirteen clubs were distributed across the country, with the only significant absences in East Anglia, the south coast and the far SW. All the major cities/conurbations had a team within an hours drive. The RFU was very happy to support this model!

This all changed when Exeter beat Bristol in the Championship final (despite not winning the league), and managed not to get relegated the following season. However ironically their success opened up the possibly of London Welsh moving to Oxford in order to chase the Premiership dream, and this has allowed Wasps to move to Coventry with no questions asked.

The team I feel sorry for is Coventry RFC, once one of the best teams in the UK, whose name we will probably never see grace the premiership again. I don't have much sympathy for Worcester though, as Birmingham is much better served by (the also historically great) Moseley.
 
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Hornet

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I think there has been an effective franchise model in operation for years. Saracens, Wasps and Irish all played away from London. And during the 2000s there were the 13 clubs who controlled all the Premiership Rugby Ltd A and B shares (you know who they are!). The thirteenth club played in the Division 1 but because they were still a shareholder they also got a massive payout, inevitably won the 1st division and were promoted back in the premiership. And even if they didn't win rules meant that clubs without facilities meeting a certain standard were not allowed to be promoted. The thirteen clubs were distributed across the country, with the only significant absences in East Anglia, the south coast and the far SW. All the major cities/conurbations had a team within an hours drive. The RFU was very happy to support this model!

This all changed when Exeter beat Bristol in the Championship final (despite not winning the league), and managed not to get relegated the following season. However ironically their success opened up the possibly of London Welsh moving to Oxford in order to chase the Premiership dream, and this has allowed Wasps to move to Coventry with no questions asked.

The team I feel sorry for is Coventry RFC, once one of the best teams in the UK, whose name we will probably never see grace the premiership again. I don't have much sympathy for Worcester though, as Birmingham is much better served by (the also historically great) Moseley.

There has been discussions on some Irish Rugby forums about having a London based PRO12 Franchise, the primary one being London Irish, primarily because of the large Irish diaspora, and also to get up the noses of the PRL/RFU who do not get many bouquets this side of the Irish Sea. (The nickname for London Irish here is the Not-Nots, Not London, Not Irish). That's a none runner. Irish and Welsh do have the feel of being franchises, but not Saracens. Despite the large amount of hatred for Nigel Wray, (and boy, does he come in for some dogs abuse from many Irish Rugby fans). he has invested time, money and effort to move Sarries back to Barnet, and that can only be a positive.

Exeter have been a breath of fresh air in the Premiership. Have visited Sandy Park once, when Leinster played them in a HEC game. (A journey from hell. My first flight was cancelled, as was the rearranged flight due to snow at Heathrow. Ended up on the overnight ferry to Holyhead. Took 90 minutes for the coach to take us from the Ferry to Holyhead Station, due to the snow and North Wales Police not letting any HGV's leave te port due to the dangerous road conditions. Even with the snow over the top of the rails in places, I made it down to Exeter earlier than my original plans. Network Rail and the TOC's did a magnificent job that day). That had to be the coldest game I had ever been to, but the Exeter fans were a credit to their team. Don't think I bought a drink that evening, as the local support, on hearing on how difficult it had been for us to get there took us in as their own. Much banter was had in the stands, ably helped by a very generous Exeter supporter sharing the contents of his hip flask with all and sundry around him. A great occasion.

I don't really know what to feel about Wasps. Although I never followed Rugby in my early days, (It wasn't until a friend took me to see Saracens that I got the bug), Wasps should be the team I should follow, being a Bucks boy of West London parentage. Saracens get my vote as my English team to follow, but now having lived in Dublin for over a decade, and wanting to watch a Professional team sport, (I hate Soccer and GAA with a passion), Leinster are the only choice. Two of my best mates, (one sadly no longer with us), are/were Wasps fans. During Wasps glory years I would arrange the Sarries v Wasps tickets and they the reverse fixture. When Wasps were in Dublin (playing Munster and Leinster), they would stay over. When Wasps made the HEC finals, they ensured I had a ticket, although they had no interest when I offered the reciprocal arrangements for Leinsters three HEC finals. The big thing for them was Wasps Community set up in Bucks and South Herts, and the tie in with their local Rugby club. That seems to be under threat with the move to Coventry.

The feeling coming through the Wasps forum is that the long term supporters may well gravitate back to the amateur scene and support Wasps FC in Acton. I think the seeds of Wasps current predicament can be traced back to the Loftus Road move and the break from the amateur club. Wray has stuck by Saracens through thick and thin and seems to have had a long term vision. Wasps have lacked that. What would I do if I were a Wasps fan? I would most likely to change my allegience to Ealing Trailfinders. They are close enough to Wasps ancestral home to follow and are in the upper echelons of English Rugby. I could not support a team that treated me as a fan, (and someone who might have spent a lot of money following them), so shabbily over the last few weeks. If Leinster did the equivelent, and knowing how much I have spent being a season ticket holder and a regular to many away PRO12 and HEC games, I would certainly walk away and go back to my first love of Motorcycle Road Racing and follow individuals, rather than a team.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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Whilst one of the higher echolonic Wasps brethren appears to feel that employment requirements may cause some of their following to miss out on attending matches in Coventry, he seems to feel that the majority will still make the journey. I cannot help thinking of the term of "sent to Coventry" might well apply when a percentage of their following will refuse to make such journeys.

Wasps have now announced that the first "home" match that they will play at the Ricoh Arena will be on 21st December against London Irish.
 
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STEVIEBOY1

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As mentioned before;

It's a bit like when Wimbledon Football Club moved to a new ground in Milton Keynes which again is a long way to go. In the end the Wimbledon Fans created their own new Wimbledon area based team.

I wonder if Wasps Fans will do the same and have a new team "Son of Wasps", Perhaps.!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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European Rugby Challenge Cup...Pool 1

Sale Sharks 26...Munster 27.

When I heard that Sale Sharks were leading 23-7 at half-time, I felt that matters were reasonably secure, but a kick by Minster in the dying seconds of the game gave them the victory by a single point.

All credit nonetheless to Munster for returning to the fray in the second half fully charged and the twenty points that they scored in that period were a just reward for such spirited determination.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
European Rugby Champions Cup...Pool 2

Leinster 25...Wasps 20

I suppose that Hornet will be cheered by this result, which saw Leinster recover from a 11-20 half-time deficit to score 14 unanswered second-half points in this win.
 

Hornet

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European Rugby Challenge Cup...Pool 1

Sale Sharks 26...Munster 27.

When I heard that Sale Sharks were leading 23-7 at half-time, I felt that matters were reasonably secure, but a kick by Minster in the dying seconds of the game gave them the victory by a single point.

All credit nonetheless to Munster for returning to the fray in the second half fully charged and the twenty points that they scored in that period were a just reward for such spirited determination.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
European Rugby Champions Cup...Pool 2

Leinster 25...Wasps 20

I suppose that Hornet will be cheered by this result, which saw Leinster recover from a 11-20 half-time deficit to score 14 unanswered second-half points in this win.

Tough game to watch, especially the first half. A lot more intensity by Leinster in the second half with some good ruck clearing. Pleased with the result seeing that we are down several first choice players through injury at present. (Both our first choice tight and loose heads are injured). That was two wins for us this weekend, (our 'A' team beat Jersey in the British and Irish Cup on Friday, making it two out of two for us in that competition). Was disappointed with the Sale result. I would have loved to have seen our big rivals taken down a peg or two. It would had shut up some of the Munster Trolls on our Fans Forum.

Our 'A' game on Friday had one of the most bizarre passages of play I have ever seen. In the very last minute of the first half, Jersey won a scrum on the 5 metre line and started to maul the ball towards the try line. The maul collapsed, (Jersey front rower slipped), and one of our props went in the side. In the bin he went. What followed was just farcical. Jersey opted for the scrum, (they were on top in that department). We were down to seven in the scrum. For the next thirteen (13) minutes we had collapsed scrums and penalties given against Leinster, (at least six), but no penalty try awarded against us. We even had a hooker binned for one of the penalties, so we were down to six in the scrum. We were still infringing and got pinged, but still no penalty try. Even the Leinster fans were imploring the ref to give a penalty try. The reset scrums went on for so long that the prop who was originally binned came back on after his ten minutes and joined the scrum, which was instigated by his original penalty. After thirteen minutes of this bizarre passage Leinster won a scrum penalty which was promptly booted into touch. There endeth the first half, with a mixture of applause for the try line not being breached, and hoots of derision aimed at the ref for his inept handling of the scrum. I believe BBC Radio Jersey were reporting on the match, and their commentators were not impressed to say the least. If you think the ref was biased towards Leinster, it was not because he was a local, he was an RFU ref! Farcical stuff!
 

STEVIEBOY1

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European Rugby Challenge Cup...Pool 1

Sale Sharks 26...Munster 27.

When I heard that Sale Sharks were leading 23-7 at half-time, I felt that matters were reasonably secure, but a kick by Minster in the dying seconds of the game gave them the victory by a single point.

All credit nonetheless to Munster for returning to the fray in the second half fully charged and the twenty points that they scored in that period were a just reward for such spirited determination.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
European Rugby Champions Cup...Pool 2

Leinster 25...Wasps 20

I suppose that Hornet will be cheered by this result, which saw Leinster recover from a 11-20 half-time deficit to score 14 unanswered second-half points in this win.


Shame Wasps lost.

There was a gentleman from Wasps on Radio 4 this morning mainly talking about this game, but the move to Coventry was also mentioned, I did not realise that the move is a "Done Deal", I thought that it was only being considered, but by the way this chap was speaking, it sounds like it is going ahead for certain.
 

Greenback

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There were some interesting results over the weekend. By all accounts the French aren't very interested in the second tier competition, but I still wouldn't have expected wins out there for Edinburgh and the Dragons.
 

Hornet

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Shame Wasps lost.

There was a gentleman from Wasps on Radio 4 this morning mainly talking about this game, but the move to Coventry was also mentioned, I did not realise that the move is a "Done Deal", I thought that it was only being considered, but by the way this chap was speaking, it sounds like it is going ahead for certain.

Historic game in a way. Last time 'London' Wasps have played away from home in a European Cup game against a none English team. Coventry Cockroaches anyone!
 

Hadders

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Wasps dropped the 'London' prefix at the start of this season, they are simply known now as 'Wasps'. Someone obviously knew the move to Coventry was happening...
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Wasps dropped the 'London' prefix at the start of this season, they are simply known now as 'Wasps'. Someone obviously knew the move to Coventry was happening...

I Just had a look at the Wasps online shop, I see the prices for some of their Jerseys have decreased, I wonder if that's anything to do with the move. I bought a long sleeved stripey one a while ago and it was more expensive then. I prefer the older style Rugby Jerseys compared to the newer ones.
 

Hornet

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Quite, I doubt it's been cobbled together in a week or two!

Speaking to Wasps fans at the weekend, and those I know back home, there was a rumour going around in early September, after the STH's had got their 2014/2015 tickets, that the club were considering a move, but due to commercial sensitivities the move was denied. The move only became a reality at the end of September when those in Dublin had already booked flights and accomodation. There was a couple of fans forum held earlier this month, (after the move was confirmed), when the board members admitted keeping Wasps fans in the dark, an apologising for that.

The general concensus from mates back home, and those at Sunday's game was of betrayal. The consider themselves fans of London Wasps, not Wasps. The majority of STH's are looking for a refund, as they have no desire to follow their team up the M1/M6 (or M40/M42/M6). The casual Wasp fan support will collapse. The vast majority see no future for the club in Coventry and see it as a means for the club's owner's bigger aim, and that is to own the Ricoh Stadium. For the majority of fans London Wasps/Wasps will cease to be their team as from December, (the first game in the Ricoh Stadium).

Ironically, Wasps owner is a Leinsterman. I wonder who he was really cheering for on Sunday afternoon.
 
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Greenback

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I'm pretty sure that the move has been planned for quite a while. It would have had to have been, really. I am against it, mostly because of the effect on fans and other clubs, but I did note David Flatman's comments on ITV's highlight show that the move was essential, otherwise there would be no club to support.

I still don't agree with it, though.
 

Hornet

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I'm pretty sure that the move has been planned for quite a while. It would have had to have been, really. I am against it, mostly because of the effect on fans and other clubs, but I did note David Flatman's comments on ITV's highlight show that the move was essential, otherwise there would be no club to support.

I still don't agree with it, though.

You have to ask though, if the move was planned for some time, why were the STH's not advised before they renewed for 2014/2015? It's a really poor show on behalf of the club and treats their loyal supporters with contempt.

David Flatman's old club, Bath, an it's ground at the Rec is in dire need for a revamp. There is no chance of a modern stadium be built at the Rec, (unless it's built in the local stone), so it will have to be built somewhere else, or a ground share might have to be considered. What future is there for Bath Rugby in the city?
 

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