Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I note that discussions are scheduled to take place this week that will address the matter of the current salary cap in the Aviva Premiership.
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The new salary cap has been agreed by Premiership Rugby:
- Base salary cap up to £5.1m plus £400,000 home grown player credits
- Each club can nominate two players who are excluded from the above figures
- One of the excluded players can be a member of the current squad
- The other excluded player must be new to Premiership Rugby in season 2015/16 and/or not have played in the competition for 12 months.
- Base salary cap up to £5.1m plus £400,000 home grown player credits
- Each club can nominate two players who are excluded from the above figures
- One of the excluded players can be a member of the current squad
- The other excluded player must be new to Premiership Rugby in season 2015/16 and/or not have played in the competition for 12 months.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Aviva Premiership
Sale Sharks 46...London Welsh 8
I was interested in how the Sale squad would react after their first two matches of this season and whilst it was only 15-3 at half-time, a strong second half performance saw a total of six tries being scored, three of these by Arscott.
Sale Sharks 46...London Welsh 8
I was interested in how the Sale squad would react after their first two matches of this season and whilst it was only 15-3 at half-time, a strong second half performance saw a total of six tries being scored, three of these by Arscott.
I missed the match as I was playing in one of our teams local derby's but I Very much agree! You would hardly expect a team like the Tigers to lose during a International Call up season (Autumn Internationals/6Nations) but at this early stage in the season is quite a hit. I wouldn't want to be near Cockers* for the rest of yesterday!
All in all, I think we are going to see a rather competitive season this year with Exeter Chiefs, Northampton Saints, Saracens & Bath all putting in some strong performances, and some promise shining through a few players including Danny Cipriani's impressive try setting up for Sale. Also interesting though - 3rd Weekend, and the 3rd - 0 score in a row, I don't think I've ever seen this in a season of premiership rugby before!{Exeter/Welsh, Sarries/Quins, Bath/Tigers!}
*Leicester head coach Richard Cockerill
It looks like it might be a very interesting season ahead, sure enough. I enjoyed the highlights programme last night, some cracking tries and good performances on display.
London Welsh look doomed already, though. They just aren't good enough, and they look like they will need a miracle after only three rounds of games.
In the Pro12, the Ospreys put in a good show yesterday afternoon, though it pains me to say it as a Scarlet fan! Edinburgh didn't look like a good side, but the Ospreys seem to have a desire to play more attractive rugby this season and score a few tries, rather than relying on Biggar's boot all the time.
London Welsh look doomed already, though. They just aren't good enough, and they look like they will need a miracle after only three rounds of games.
In the Pro12, the Ospreys put in a good show yesterday afternoon, though it pains me to say it as a Scarlet fan! Edinburgh didn't look like a good side, but the Ospreys seem to have a desire to play more attractive rugby this season and score a few tries, rather than relying on Biggar's boot all the time.
I was in Newcastle yesterday to see the Saints get back to winning ways against a poor Newcastle team. I think it'll be a battle between Newcastle and London Welsh for the relegation spot.
As for the Leicester result - wow, just wow! I'd give my right arm as a Saints supporter to get a result like that against Leicester.
Whilst you can never ignore a wounded tiger it does seem to me that all's not quite right at Leicester at the moment.
As for the Leicester result - wow, just wow! I'd give my right arm as a Saints supporter to get a result like that against Leicester.
Whilst you can never ignore a wounded tiger it does seem to me that all's not quite right at Leicester at the moment.
I thought that right after our Exeter Chiefs win over them. Must be quite a kicking for former all black Piri Weepu too who's signed to them for two seasons (I can see him going the same way as James O'Conner did at with London Irish), but the way Welsh have played over the past 3 matches so far just goes to show that the formula of money to buy you a winning team coupled with a very narrow pre season training window to allow time for your new team to bond together just doesn't work. Saturday's match against Sale showed a little promise, but then Welsh just seemed to tire badly in the second half and that's where the holes in their defence caused them to weaken. What the management were thinking in London Welsh I don't know, but why you would release most of the team that got you from the Championship back up to the Premiership and then buy in a new team I don't know.
So after round 3 - Top four predictions so far?
Exeter Chiefs
Bath
Saracens
Northampton Saints
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Aviva Premiership
Saracens 40...Sale Sharks 19
Sale can take some heart that the try count was only 4-3 in Saracens favour. Having had consecutive league matches against London Welsh and Saracens showed Sale Sharks there is a very wide gulf between teams at the top and the bottom of the Aviva Premiership.
Saracens 40...Sale Sharks 19
Sale can take some heart that the try count was only 4-3 in Saracens favour. Having had consecutive league matches against London Welsh and Saracens showed Sale Sharks there is a very wide gulf between teams at the top and the bottom of the Aviva Premiership.
Northampton 31 Bath 24 
An excellent bonus point win for the Saints (particularly considering Bath's 45-0 drubbing of Leicester last week) although they nearly threw it away at the death.
Talking of Leicester...
Leicester 19 London Irish 22
I get the feeling that something's not quite right on the other side of the East Midlands at the moment.
An excellent bonus point win for the Saints (particularly considering Bath's 45-0 drubbing of Leicester last week) although they nearly threw it away at the death.
Talking of Leicester...
Leicester 19 London Irish 22
I get the feeling that something's not quite right on the other side of the East Midlands at the moment.
So another defeat for London Welsh on Friday night, and I'm glad to say I tipped Saints to beat Bath!
Sadly, I also tipped Scarlets to beat Edinburgh, and they should have done, but they threw it away by playing daft rugby and making the wrong decisions.
Sadly, I also tipped Scarlets to beat Edinburgh, and they should have done, but they threw it away by playing daft rugby and making the wrong decisions.
So while I find out that half of London Irish Rugby Club are chilling out in my Clubhouse this evening!...I was watching one Excellent match at the Rec this evening on BT Sport:
Bath 21 - 11 Saracens
Both teams were a little shaky in the kicking tonight with more kicks being missed by Goode but all in all Bath showing some great decision making and kicking to compete - Top 4 this season? I think so!
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Another weekend of exciting Premiership Rugby and... Another defeat for Richard Cockerell's men.
Gloucester Rugby 33 Leicester Tigers 16
And continuing with the thumpings, London Welsh managed another round of defeats with more points being conceded in a match which saw a return to form Quins Team.
Harlequins 52 London Welsh 0
Rounding off today's matches, a rather close to call result came from the Madjeski today with two teams on fine form.
London Irish 12 Northampton Saints 19
Looking very much forward to the Sale v Wasps (available on BT Sport) and my Exeter Chiefs v Falcons matches tomorrow.
Bath 21 - 11 Saracens
Both teams were a little shaky in the kicking tonight with more kicks being missed by Goode but all in all Bath showing some great decision making and kicking to compete - Top 4 this season? I think so!
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Another weekend of exciting Premiership Rugby and... Another defeat for Richard Cockerell's men.
Gloucester Rugby 33 Leicester Tigers 16
And continuing with the thumpings, London Welsh managed another round of defeats with more points being conceded in a match which saw a return to form Quins Team.
Harlequins 52 London Welsh 0
Rounding off today's matches, a rather close to call result came from the Madjeski today with two teams on fine form.
London Irish 12 Northampton Saints 19
Looking very much forward to the Sale v Wasps (available on BT Sport) and my Exeter Chiefs v Falcons matches tomorrow.
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I'm on my back from Reading having seen the Saints go top of the league (no prizes for finishing top though!)
Can't believe the Leicester result, not just the three losses on the trot but the manner of the defeats. Don't think Cockerill will be there much longer.
Can't believe the Leicester result, not just the three losses on the trot but the manner of the defeats. Don't think Cockerill will be there much longer.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Rugby Championship
Argentina 21...Australia 17
Rather a "turn up for the book", considering that Australia were leading 14-0 at one stage.
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Sale Sharks scored three tries in their 25-14 win over Wasps this afternoon.
Newcastle Falcons finally ended a 20-match losing run with a 29-24 win over Exeter Chiefs and this was their first win over Exeter Chiefs in seven attempts.
Argentina 21...Australia 17
Rather a "turn up for the book", considering that Australia were leading 14-0 at one stage.
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Sale Sharks scored three tries in their 25-14 win over Wasps this afternoon.
Newcastle Falcons finally ended a 20-match losing run with a 29-24 win over Exeter Chiefs and this was their first win over Exeter Chiefs in seven attempts.
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Hornet
Member
- Joined
- 16 Jul 2013
- Messages
- 748
Bad day at the office for me yesterday. Both our 'A' team and first team being beaten by our biggest foes. At least I didn't have to listen to that dirge 'The fields of Athenry', seeing that the Red hoards didn't travel up from Limerick in great numbers. Revenge in Thomond Park will be sweet at Christmas.
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Would they like Matt O'Connor back?
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Would they like Matt O'Connor back?
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
How do you find the Pro 12 competition ? We don't have many Leinster supporters visiting this thread.
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I'd quite like Cockerill to stay!
It's a shame that Saints aren't playing Leicester until Christmas (at Franklin's Gardens) and May (at the Welford Road 'roundabout').
Hornet
Member
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Being a Saracens follower as well, (I started watching Rugby at Vicarage Road before moving to Dublin in 2002), I can weigh up the pro's and con's of both competitions. I still get to see some Premiership Rugby when I am back in the UK, primarily Wasps and Saracens, (Adams Park being close to my folks in Slough). I enjoy Pro 12 more than the Premiership. The 'Bosh' factor is not as present, and there is a better use of rotating players, (something that is a must as many of Leinster players are centrally contracted to the IRFU, i.e. their salaries are paid by the Union, not the Club). What has to be remembered is that the Provinces have to bow to the Union. This means that centrally contracted Players can only play for their Province when released by the Union. The structure for us is that the National team takes precidence over the Provincial teams.
It can be frustrating when we cannot field our best squad for certain games, but it does mean that we can build a better depth of squad. Also we have limits on the amount of NIQ's (Non Irish Qualified) players we can have in the squad. I think the figure is five. So Leinster would have a much higher proportion of Irish players, than Saracens, English players or Toulon, French players. Our 'A' team (the holders of the B&I for 2012/2013 and 2013/2014 after beating Championship teams Leeds Carnegie and Newcastle Falcons) are essentially acadamy and fringe players with one or two senior squad members coming back from injury.
Ireland has about 150 fully professional players spread over the four Provences plus around 15 NIQ's. The second level is the AIL league which covers the whole of Ireland. This is a semi professional league and would be on the same level as the third or fourth tier in England.
Financially Leinster is a solvent club, but doesn't have the access to the sort of funds that the likes of some of the French and English clubs have. We do not own our current ground, (we are tenants of the RDS), but have a good working relationship with them. Apart from Sexton, we have been able to retain all of our top level players from the clutches of foreign teams, (and Sexton is back next year). 12,000 season tickets were sold this year, and of course we hold one of the biggest derby games in rugby twice a year. (Over 43,000 watched at the Aviva on Saturday).
One of the best things about the Pro 12 is that we get to play two away games in Italy. That has to be so much better than a wet weekend in Manchester watching Sale Sharks or getting lashed on at the Rec, even though Bath is a beautiful City. There is nothing better than going to Treviso on the Saturday to watch the game, the sitting by the side of the Grand Canal on Sunday, eating a gelato and watching the gondola's go by. The Manchester Ship Canal just doesn't have that ring.
Personally, I would love to see a British/Irish league, with the likes of Leinster/Munster/Ulster going toe to toe with Sarries/Tiggers/Pests on regular occasions. If anything it would see what model of Rugby was better, Club run or Union run.
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With the increasing likelyhood of the Pests moving to the Ricoh Stadium full time, I wonder what Union fans on this forum think about this and the consequences for other teams/the league. I've a few friends who are Wasps fans and they are livid about what is happening. A historic club destroyed almost at a stroke. I'm wondering if Ealing Trailfinders might benefit from the fall-out from this move, as they are based close to Wasps ancesteral home. (As an aside am I right in thinking that Ealing play on/close to the old British Rail Staff Association grounds at Castle Bar Park. The Southall and Ealing branch of the NUR used to hold their branch meetings in the BRSA clubhouse their in the late 70's, myself being a member at that time).
There is a whole host of difference between the Premiership and Pro-12 which was at the heart of the European dispute over the last two years.
Firstly, there is promotion and relegation to/from the Premiership which is absent in the Pro-12. Teams in the Premiership simply can't afford to play with weakened sides due to the risk of finishing bottom. In recent years both Harlequins and Northampton have finished bottom and suffered relegation, spending a sabbatical year in the Championship. Those who look at the current performance of London Welsh and call for the Premiership t be ring-fenced would do well to remember that Exeter were promoted only a few seasons ago and have more than held their own.
Historically qualification for the Heineken Cup was unfair. England had six slots and these went to the top six in the Premiership. Ireland had three spots and these went to the top three Irish sides in the Pro-12 which was always Leinster, Munster and Ulster (Connacht could never compete as they have only ever been funded at half the level of the other provinces). Again, this meant that the Premiership clubs could not rest players for fear of finishing outside of the top six whereas their Pro-12 colleagues across the water were assured of qualifying year after year.
Under the new European regime the top 7 teams from the Pro-12 will qualify for the Champions Cup (with the proviso that there will be at least one team from each country). This will make the pro-12 more competitive.
Weekends away are nice but there can't be many away supporters who travel to Treviso for a Pro-12 match. As it happens I will be in Treviso in December as the Saints are playing there in the Champions Cup. It's a beautiful little town.
On the subject of Wasps it's an absolutely disgraceful situation. The Ricoh Arena is a soulless place at the best of times and there'll be lucky to get 3,000 spectators in the place.
Firstly, there is promotion and relegation to/from the Premiership which is absent in the Pro-12. Teams in the Premiership simply can't afford to play with weakened sides due to the risk of finishing bottom. In recent years both Harlequins and Northampton have finished bottom and suffered relegation, spending a sabbatical year in the Championship. Those who look at the current performance of London Welsh and call for the Premiership t be ring-fenced would do well to remember that Exeter were promoted only a few seasons ago and have more than held their own.
Historically qualification for the Heineken Cup was unfair. England had six slots and these went to the top six in the Premiership. Ireland had three spots and these went to the top three Irish sides in the Pro-12 which was always Leinster, Munster and Ulster (Connacht could never compete as they have only ever been funded at half the level of the other provinces). Again, this meant that the Premiership clubs could not rest players for fear of finishing outside of the top six whereas their Pro-12 colleagues across the water were assured of qualifying year after year.
Under the new European regime the top 7 teams from the Pro-12 will qualify for the Champions Cup (with the proviso that there will be at least one team from each country). This will make the pro-12 more competitive.
Weekends away are nice but there can't be many away supporters who travel to Treviso for a Pro-12 match. As it happens I will be in Treviso in December as the Saints are playing there in the Champions Cup. It's a beautiful little town.
On the subject of Wasps it's an absolutely disgraceful situation. The Ricoh Arena is a soulless place at the best of times and there'll be lucky to get 3,000 spectators in the place.
Wasps move to Coventry - A potentially good or bad bold move? Or are as this article gives me the feeling, being treated like a Football Club just for commercial gains?
http://www.therugbyblog.com/was-richardsons-wasps-takeover-just-a-step-on-the-road-to-the-ricoh
I will admit though that Adams Park is a awful ground though, which compared to rivals like Sarries, Irish or Saints does leave Wasps somewhat behind. The new station will make travelling there easier than Adams Park...But a heck of a distance further away from their heartlands.
Looking on the net tonight shows that virtually know one is pleased about this move at all - Coventry doesn't want another Rugby team coming in, Still remain angry at their football team, Wasps fans are livid, and Wasps seem to be claiming this as 'What's best for the Club'. I'm not a Wasps fan (Exeter Chiefs and Irish) but I've got some connections to those who are and know-one wants this either. I wonder how this'll affect Wasps match against Bath on Saturday? Tom Varndell has already taken to Twitter this evening to get fans to keep the faith in them for Saturday but will they?
If anyone is interested, I see there's a petition going around on the net.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/394/130/032/keep-wasps-rfc-inaround-london/
http://www.therugbyblog.com/was-richardsons-wasps-takeover-just-a-step-on-the-road-to-the-ricoh
I will admit though that Adams Park is a awful ground though, which compared to rivals like Sarries, Irish or Saints does leave Wasps somewhat behind. The new station will make travelling there easier than Adams Park...But a heck of a distance further away from their heartlands.
Looking on the net tonight shows that virtually know one is pleased about this move at all - Coventry doesn't want another Rugby team coming in, Still remain angry at their football team, Wasps fans are livid, and Wasps seem to be claiming this as 'What's best for the Club'. I'm not a Wasps fan (Exeter Chiefs and Irish) but I've got some connections to those who are and know-one wants this either. I wonder how this'll affect Wasps match against Bath on Saturday? Tom Varndell has already taken to Twitter this evening to get fans to keep the faith in them for Saturday but will they?
If anyone is interested, I see there's a petition going around on the net.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/394/130/032/keep-wasps-rfc-inaround-london/
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Sale Sharks have played at both Stockport on the ground of Stockport County FC and at Salford in the brand new stadium that they share with Salford Red Devils RLFC in recent years after leaving their small-ish capacity stadium in Heywood Road in Sale, but both those two areas are reasonably local to the club name, but for Wasps to move to Coventry is a totally different kettle of fish and I am very sorry indeed for their supporters.
Stonesourscotty
Member
Sbw returned to Union today and Sam Burgess won't be going to Union for a while as James Graham shattered his cheek I imagine this ruins Sam's world cup chances so wonderful if the nrl would try to buy out his contract now as rumours here suggest??
STEVIEBOY1
Established Member
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- 4,001
I was very shocked to learn that Wasps may be moving to Coventry, I can understand that they may need a new ground but Wasps to Coventry is not exactly in the same location. (It's a bit like when Wimbledon Football moved to Milton Keynes.)
Hornet
Member
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- 16 Jul 2013
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- 748
Following this on the Wasps forum. They are saying that as many as 80% of Season Ticket Holders will be asking for a refund. (First game in the Ricoh in December). Wasps offering free coaches to/from Wycombe for 'home' games (STH's only) despite the fact that many long term fans are based in North and West London. Shocking way of treating loyal supporters. I very much doubt if Wasps will succeed in the medium term, losing their fan base, and treading on the toes of the likes of Coventry RFC and Worcester Warriors which has a community rugby base close by. Warriors have voiced their concerns with the PRL and RFU. Sad (but in many ways inevitable, seeing as several Premiership teams run at a loss, and do not own the stadia the play in). Franchised Rugby has come to England. Which club is next?
I completely agree with you, and yet on Facebook Wasps still heralded today as a great decision for the club. I knew finances were severe but a move to London would have meant a move back towards their fanbase location. I wonder how many of the clubs & community partnerships & Wasps academy across West London & the Thames Valley to Buckinghamshire to North London feel about the move?
Equally I wonder how not just Dean Ryan's Worcester feel about this move but also Gloucester / Tigers and more prominently local Midland Rivals Northampton Saints feel? As the move would infringe on all of their feeder clubs patches as well.
I totally agree.
I suspect this whole thing is noting more than a property transaction and in a few years time the owners will sell on at a massive profit and Wasps will be cast aside.
There is no way Wasps will get close to filling the Ricoh. Even in their glory days they couldn't even fill Adams Park.
From a Saints point of view they are the only gig in town. Northampton's a rugby town through and through - I can't think of any other places where the rugby team gets more supporters than the league football team in the same town! I can't see this affecting Saints support but the more worrying thing is the cut of areas for the academies.
Each of the Premiership clubs has a defined geographic area from were they recruit into their academy. Wasps currently cover Middlesex, Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire. How this will work with a move to Coventry is anyone's guess.