Rugby Union

[Greenback]

I thought there were a lot of errors today from both sides. There will be everything at stake next week so I expect there to be just as many mistakes if not more due to the pressure.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How bad is the hamstring injury to Sam Warburton said to be ?

 

[Greenback]

It will be assessed today or tomorrow, I believe.

 

[Johnuk123]

It will be assessed today or tomorrow, I believe.

He's out for a month.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

He's out for a month.

A most critical thing for the Lions to overcome....who will be the chief motivator for them now ?

 

[Liam]

A most critical thing for the Lions to overcome....who will be the chief motivator for them now ?

Hasn't O'Driscoll been doing that job all along?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hasn't O'Driscoll been doing that job all along?

Indeed, but I was referring to Sam Warburton in his capacity as the captain of the British and Irish Lions.
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Hasn't O'Driscoll been doing that job all along?

In which case, why do you think that Warren Gatland has not even included him in the squad that will play the final decisive match ?

 

[Liam]

Indeed, but I was referring to Sam Warburton in his capacity as the captain of the British and Irish Lions.
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In which case, why do you think that Warren Gatland has not even included him in the squad that will play the final decisive match ?

Huge call. O'Driscoll has been immense in defence in the two tests so far. I'm not sure what Jamie Roberts gives the team over O'Driscoll.

 

[Butts]

Huge call. O'Driscoll has been immense in defence in the two tests so far. I'm not sure what Jamie Roberts gives the team over O'Driscoll.

Lets hope we finally get a Scottish player on the pitch for the final test as none have featured in the first two

 

[Oswyntail]

Gatland has gone for those he knows, which, IMHO, is a move of panic; to go for so many Welshmen suggests he has not got the team playing. The ill-judged overloading of the Lions with Welsh players is coming back to bite him. They were not THAT much better than anyone else in the 5-nations, and, as a team, have a poor record against Australia.
On the other hand, O'Driscoll has not been "immense" so far, and the midfield has been stuttering. Does he deserve a place, even on the bench? I suspect not
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Lets hope we finally get a Scottish player on the pitch for the final test as none have featured in the first two

Sorry, but, if that happens, the Titanic is already at the bottom of the ocean

 

[Greenback]

Gatland only has one game plan, and he has been roundly criticised by many in Wales over the last five eyars when that game plan has not worked. Like it or not, you know that a Gatland team is going to rely on physicality rather than guile, and when done well, it can be effective, although it is seldom attractive or entertaining to watch.

For what it's worth, I though O'Driscoll only went on his reputation. he doesn't seem to be much of a potent attacking force any more, despite his good tackling, defensive skills and ability to read a game.

One of the reasons I dislike the Lions is that when things don't go well it invariably becomes tribalistic. Clive Woodward was criticised for his reliance of English players in 2005, for the sound reason that they knew how to win in the Southern Hemisphere, and the current head coach is now criticised for picking Welsh players for the similarly sound reason that they are the most capable of playing the style he wants and implementing the game plan he wants.

Many of us in Wales were against him taking charge. I think we are now seeing why it was not a good idea for a current national coach to be in such a position.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One side wins by two points as the opposition misses a last minute penalty.
One side wins by one point as the opposition messes a last minute penalty.

Perhaps this time we might see a match that can be won decisively by one side or another. It seems that Warren Gatland has gone for a "steamroller" pack, hoping for flashes of inspiration from the backs.

 

[sonic2009]

Lions are all over the Aussies

 

[Butts]

Lions are all over the Aussies

Yes, excellent 41-16 victory and the series - well done
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Gatland only has one game plan, and he has been roundly criticised by many in Wales over the last five eyars when that game plan has not worked. Like it or not, you know that a Gatland team is going to rely on physicality rather than guile, and when done well, it can be effective, although it is seldom attractive or entertaining to watch.

For what it's worth, I though O'Driscoll only went on his reputation. he doesn't seem to be much of a potent attacking force any more, despite his good tackling, defensive skills and ability to read a game.

One of the reasons I dislike the Lions is that when things don't go well it invariably becomes tribalistic. Clive Woodward was criticised for his reliance of English players in 2005, for the sound reason that they knew how to win in the Southern Hemisphere, and the current head coach is now criticised for picking Welsh players for the similarly sound reason that they are the most capable of playing the style he wants and implementing the game plan he wants.

Many of us in Wales were against him taking charge. I think we are now seeing why it was not a good idea for a current national coach to be in such a position.

All's well that ends well

 

[Greenback]

Who would have though Gatland knew what he was doing all along?!! I don't particularly like his game plan, but it is very successful when it works, and it works more than it fails.

In the end it was a convincing win, and was based on a powerful scrum and powerful running from the backs.

 

[Oswyntail]

..... It seems that Warren Gatland has gone for a "steamroller" pack, hoping for flashes of inspiration from the backs.

Isn't that basically what the game is about? IMHO, the perfect pack should be just that, rolling over the opposition pack, and dominating the breakdown; the backs should be able and willing to exploit the consequent possession and space. However, what Gatland has moved towards is also having steamroller backs, which is fair enough, but it does hide some basic flaws.
(And I do prefer the modern forwards, who can also run, tackle and pass, and are not just lumbering battering rams. IMHO the modern game is better for them. The "excitement" of the game in the 70s tended to come when the forwards ran out of puff so it was back v back, and the winners were those whose forwards fell over in the way of the backs more)

 

[sonic2009]

Leigh Halfpenny one of the world's best take a bow.

 

[Butts]

Leigh Halfpenny one of the world's best take a bow.

Especially after that miss last week - came back well

 

[flymo]

I will put my hand in the air and say that I thought the Lions would get a right stuffing today but credit where credit is due to the whole team. They made a magnificent start and then ran away with it in the second half.

A fitting end to a wonderful tour. Well done team !!!!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps this time we might see a match that can be won decisively by one side or another.

Well, a 41-16 result in favour of the British and Irish Lions certainly met all my expectations.

 

[Oswyntail]

Well, a 41-16 result in favour of the British and Irish Lions certainly met all my expectations.

I think one consequence of this result will be a closer look at referees. There is too much obvious variation between North and South, particularly in the control of forward play, so that who wins depends on the ref. I am not saying that referees are biased towards their own hemisphere (well, with one famous exception:roll, but the interpretations can be critical.

 

[Johnuk123]

Magnificent victory by the Lions.

Clive Woodward was the only high level rugby man who publically backed Gatland dropping O'Driscoll as he said it was exactly the right thing to do.

Quite a few of the other 'experts' need to apologise for being utterly wrong in slating Gatland so vehemently this week.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The 2013/2014 Premiership season fixtures has been announced, with promoted Newcastle Falcons celebrating their return to the top-tier with a home fixture at Kingston Park against Bath.

My own club, Sale Sharks, whose second part of last season was a 100% improvement on the first half to ensure yet another Premiership season, have been drawn away to Gloucester in their first match.

 

[Greenback]

Magnificent victory by the Lions.

Clive Woodward was the only high level rugby man who publically backed Gatland dropping O'Driscoll as he said it was exactly the right thing to do.

Quite a few of the other 'experts' need to apologise for being utterly wrong in slating Gatland so vehemently this week.

Absolutely. I was surprised he went on the tour to be honest. He is, of course a legend and maybe even regarded as a deity in Ireland, but I think he has gone on for one or two seasons too long, at least at international level, in the hope of getting another Lions tour in and tasting success rather than failure.

Naturally, us Welsh would also have been upset if one of our legends had been dropped in the same circumstances, but I was surprised by the number of rugby experts who seemed to think that Brian brought something to the Lions side that no one else could. Sadly, though, now that his pace has gone his influence on matches has diminished despite his great personal qualities and leadership abilities. He is simply not the BOD of four years ago.

As for the captaincy, I knew that would not happen as Gatland has never picked a back as captain of any of his teams and I doubt that he ever will!

 

[DarloRich]

@Greenback

Gatland was in a tight spot and went for the Welsh boys he knew well. They did the job! It isn't like the "old days" of lions ours where you could build up rapport. It is quite a short tour window so you have to go with tried and tested partnerships around the field.

And you are right about O'Driscoll

 

[Greenback]

Gatland was in a tight spot and went for the Welsh boys he knew well. They did the job! It isn't like the "old days" of lions ours where you could build up rapport. It is quite a short tour window so you have to go with tried and tested partnerships around the field.

And you are right about O'Driscoll

Cheers! You are also right about the tour, since professionalism the Lions concept has changed, despite the people who continue to bleat on about the heritage of the brand and the coming together of the best of the best. It is now more about making money, as you would expect, and the professional attitude to get a result is more important than spreading the word about the sport itself and taking the game around smaller towns in outlying areas and helping the grass roots or inspiring new players to take up the game.

I feel that some of the older players like Willie John McBride and Phil Bennett have not coem to terms with the modern Lions ethos. They still see it as a bit of a jolly, a nice holiday with a bit of rugby thrown in. They can't help that - they haven't experienced the intensity of the modern game. There were no tactics as we know them today in those far off days. No game plans, no blitz defence and far less media coverage and hype.

I remember the watching the 1977 Lions on BBC2 with Nigel Starmer Smith. It seemed like a happier, more relaxed and innocent time. I'll be honest I don't think the Lions should have survived into the professional era, and I'd be quite happy if this was the last tour. However, when there is money to be made from visitors in the hosting countries, and money to be made from TV deals and sponsorship, sadly I think it will go on. But it's all about money now.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On a matter that seems to have improved the game is the rule change that saw the banning of kicking directly into touch from anywhere on the pitch and confined this to only from the defending team 22 mark.

Most probably giving my age away, but the exasperating sight of Dickie Jeeps kicking for touch all over the field of play still is the most annoying sight that still remains with me. Did he not have any belief whatsoever in the open play that is such a landmark feature of the modern game or was he just a victim of the game that was played in the days when he was an international player.

 

[DarloRich]

Cheers! You are also right about the tour, since professionalism the Lions concept has changed, despite the people who continue to bleat on about the heritage of the brand and the coming together of the best of the best. It is now more about making money, as you would expect, and the professional attitude to get a result is more important than spreading the word about the sport itself and taking the game around smaller towns in outlying areas and helping the grass roots or inspiring new players to take up the game.

I feel that some of the older players like Willie John McBride and Phil Bennett have not coem to terms with the modern Lions ethos. They still see it as a bit of a jolly, a nice holiday with a bit of rugby thrown in. They can't help that - they haven't experienced the intensity of the modern game. There were no tactics as we know them today in those far off days. No game plans, no blitz defence and far less media coverage and hype.

I remember the watching the 1977 Lions on BBC2 with Nigel Starmer Smith. It seemed like a happier, more relaxed and innocent time. I'll be honest I don't think the Lions should have survived into the professional era, and I'd be quite happy if this was the last tour. However, when there is money to be made from visitors in the hosting countries, and money to be made from TV deals and sponsorship, sadly I think it will go on. But it's all about money now.

Finance is all important now.

I am also surprised the Lions tours survived into the modern game, especially when you consider the hassle there is between clubs and England over internationals, however the Lions tours will not go away now as there is very good money to be made.

 

[Greenback]

On a matter that seems to have improved the game is the rule change that saw the banning of kicking directly into touch from anywhere on the pitch and confined this to only from the defending team 22 mark.

Most probably giving my age away, but the exasperating sight of Dickie Jeeps kicking for touch all over the field of play still is the most annoying sight that still remains with me. Did he not have any belief whatsoever in the open play that is such a landmark feature of the modern game or was he just a victim of the game that was played in the days when he was an international player.

That has certainly improved the game as a spectacle.

There is a continuing debate here in Wales (I don't know if it is happening elsewhere) over the future of pro rugby union.

Essentially, rugby used to be a game for all shapes and sizes, but is becoming increasingly physical at the top levels, and the trend towards bigger and bigger players is evident.

Some here in Cymru have stopped watching pro and semi pro rugby, and instead only watch the amateur village clubs, where the game is less crash bang wallop and more like the rugby of years gone by.

These rugby fans still take an interest in internationals, but have turned their backs on the Rabo 12 Celtic League as they are sick of seeing bigger and bigger men just running into each other all the time.

Some have even called for a split similar to that which saw Rugby League come into existence, so there would be two codes - one amateur and one professional! It would probably be called Retro Rugby!

 

[Oswyntail]

There does seem to be affectionate nostalgia for the rugby of yesteryear - but was it really that good? For every "Edwards' try for the BarBars" there were twenty matches dominated by unfit forwards lumbering from set piece to set piece. At its best, as in England/Scotland this year (first half? IIRC) modern rugby is a much more exciting and entertaining spectacle, with all 15 players involved most of the time. I can see the problem of recruitment and retention at lower levels, but I would not welcome a split. So long as players have to tackle and cannot just smash I think there is room for everyone.