RRB (Rail replacement bus) - operator decision

[bakerstreet]

Looking at live departures today, the RRB between New Cross Gate and West Croydon - via Brockley, Honor Oak Park, Forest Hill, Sydenham, Crystal Palace, Anerley, Norwood Junction, Selhurst and West Croydon - is listed as being operated by Southern.

This surprised me because - although there is some crossover - I think by far the absolute majority of stopping services on that route are operated by London Overground

Just wondered how RRB operation is allocated to which TOC (Train Operating Company) in this example.

 

[The Planner]

Looking at live departures today, the RRB between New Cross Gate and West Croydon - via Brockley, Honor Oak Park, Forest Hill, Sydenham, Crystal Palace, Anerley, Norwood Junction, Selhurst and West Croydon - is listed as being operated by Southern.

This surprised me because - although there is some crossover - I think by far the absolute majority of stopping services on that route are operated by London Overground

Just wondered how RRB operation is allocated to which TOC (Train Operating Company) in this example.

Its not allocated, they agree amongst themselves, or not, and do their own thing that can overlap.

 

[greatkingrat]

Its not allocated, they agree amongst themselves, or not, and do their own thing that can overlap.

Surely there must be some sort of rule? What happens if both Southern and London Overground decide not to run any buses and leave it to the other?

 

[The Planner]

Surely there must be some sort of rule? What happens if both Southern and London Overground decide not to run any buses and leave it to the other?

That would be a serious lack of communication. Who would impose the rule and enforce it? NR certainly couldn't.

 

[markymark2000]

Its not allocated, they agree amongst themselves, or not, and do their own thing that can overlap.

As often happens with most TOCs. When the North Wales Coast is off, you often have 3 buses running together. 2 Avanti and then a few mins behind is TFW. Journey time isn't better though because Avanti give more time than TFW do despite TFW having some more stops. Most of the time, there's not enough passengers to half fill one bus, let alone full 3.

Far too many blocks where everyone does their own thing and it's no good for passengers as one staff member says next bus 50 minutes, another staff member says 35 minutes (but forgets to say that's the slow bus). It's never ending confusion because it's all different TOCs.

 

[Horizon22]

Southern have traditionally been the main operator on this route going several years back - the service to Coulsdon was only cut back from the intermediates in the last year or so - so they probably have the infrastructure, teams, contacts and contacts in place to arrange the RRBs (they can lean on First Group). No doubt money will change hands behind the scenes, but this is probably for the convenience of all.

 

[Sheridan]

As often happens with most TOCs. When the North Wales Coast is off, you often have 3 buses running together. 2 Avanti and then a few mins behind is TFW. Journey time isn't better though because Avanti give more time than TFW do despite TFW having some more stops. Most of the time, there's not enough passengers to half fill one bus, let alone full 3.

Far too many blocks where everyone does their own thing and it's no good for passengers as one staff member says next bus 50 minutes, another staff member says 35 minutes (but forgets to say that's the slow bus). It's never ending confusion because it's all different TOCs.

Loading on the coast depends on time of day and direction. A lot of the time buses are needed on weekends and loadings can be very high, especially on Sundays.

 

[markymark2000]

Loading on the coast depends on time of day and direction. A lot of the time buses are needed on weekends and loadings can be very high, especially on Sundays.

I am all too aware of the actual loadings. During the day it works and you need it. Not at night though or early morning. Made even more fun as when the coast is off, Avanti tend to end up cancelling their trains.

Chester to Crewe is always quite fun as TFW have their buses. Avanti has their buses. Both have their own coordinators and both will probably poor diagramming. Instead, if everyone worked together on one bigger timetable, you'd save on staff, save on buses probably as well as it could be diagrammed better.