RR1 error - advice how to proceed

[mune2025]

I recently received an RR1 error and contacted Trainline about it. Today, I got an email from them, and I’m really panicking. Are they going to prosecute me? Do I need to reply and say I’ll pay the penalty, or are they just warning me that they’ll pass this on to Greater Anglia if any more refund requests are made?

If I don’t make any more refund requests, will they lift the restrictions and not take things further? I’m really scared about what this means. If they decide to investigate further can I pay a penalty and avoid a criminal conviction? Any advices are much appreciated

 

[island]

The fragment of the email you have sent suggests that you are not currently under investigation, but they are suspicious of you. I would share their suspicion. You are based in Thatcham. You bought a ticket from Reading, which is nearer to London, almost immediately before it was scanned on board, and then tried to refund it almost straight away. That may be interpreted as a ticket purchased only when you saw a ticket inspector. And it's clearly improper to attempt to refund a used ticket. You also bought a ticket from West Ealing, nearer to London than you live, and scanned it almost immediately afterwards at the ticket gate at Paddington. This may be interpreted as purchasing a ticket for a shorter journey than actually made, and then only eventually paying when you found yourself confronted with a closed ticket gate.

All of this reads as a concerted effort to defraud the railway by avoiding your fares, time after time.

You have not been assessed a penalty at the current time.

I am not sure where Greater Anglia comes into this.

Your card is now very clearly marked and I would very strongly urge you to pay the correct fare going forward and not attempt to refund tickets that you have used. It probably wouldn't hurt for you to start using a different ticket provider too, such as GWR. You'll save on booking fees as a plus.

edited to insert missing word

 

[dciuk]

It looks like it is a warning. I do not know if they will pass this info on to the train companies themselves could also identify these patterns. It goes without saying that if you are making fraudulent refunds you need to stop and also ensure you purchase tickets that cover your complete journey before boarding the train in future to avoid drawing any further attention to yourself. If you use a railcard make sure it has not expired. If any revenue checks when you are travelling by train pick up any irregularities it is highly likely they would investigate your trainline history

 

[AlterEgo]

Trainline run these audits from time to time and you’ve been warned. Stop what you’re doing and use tickets properly. Refunding used tickets is fraud.

And don’t use Trainline.

 

[mune2025]

Trainline run these audits from time to time and you’ve been warned. Stop what you’re doing and use tickets properly. Refunding used tickets is fraud.

And don’t use Trainline.

Oh my god! What a relief I will never ever do this again!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2025 ==

Oh my god! What a relief I will never ever do this again!!

The wording of “Train companies might investigate accounts due to various reasons, and we are obliged to provide the data.

This will be reviewed at a later date and is not a permanent restriction.

Please also note, we will continue to monitor refund activity across Trainline Booking Platforms.” What made me worried

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2025 ==

It looks like it is a warning. I do not know if they will pass this info on to the train companies themselves could also identify these patterns. It goes without saying that if you are making fraudulent refunds you need to stop and also ensure you purchase tickets that cover your complete journey before boarding the train in future to avoid drawing any further attention to yourself. If you use a railcard make sure it has not expired. If any revenue checks when you are travelling by train pick up any irregularities it is highly likely they would investigate your trainline history

I will never do something stupid like this again. Should I delete my trainline account so they can’t puck up irregularties?

 

[John R]

You can delete it, but the data remains fully available to train companies. The only difference is that if they do enter any sort of dialogue with you, only they will be able to see the data they are querying, which I would suggest would put you at a disadvantage.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Should I delete my trainline account so they can’t puck up irregularties?

Deleting it only deletes what you can see; they can still see the data and if anything it makes things worse as (1) it looks suspicious and (2) if you are investigated you won’t be able to see the data they’re talking about

 

[mune2025]

Deleting it only deletes what you can see; they can still see the data and if anything it makes things worse as (1) it looks suspicious and (2) if you are investigated you won’t be able to see the data they’re talking about

I will not delete my account then. Thanks so much

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2025 ==

I recently received an RR1 error and contacted Trainline about it. Today, I got an email from them, and I’m really panicking. Are they going to prosecute me? Do I need to reply and say I’ll pay the penalty, or are they just warning me that they’ll pass this on to Greater Anglia if any more refund requests are made?

If I don’t make any more refund requests, will they lift the restrictions and not take things further? I’m really scared about what this means. If they decide to investigate further can I pay a penalty and avoid a criminal conviction? Any advices are much appreciated

Whilst this may look like a warning I’m worried that they are going to take further action because of the below wording:

“Train companies might investigate accounts due to various reasons, and we are obliged to provide the data.

This will be reviewed at a later date and is not a permanent restriction.

Please also note, we will continue to monitor refund activity across Trainline Booking Platforms.”

Am I overthinking?

 

[30907]

“Train companies might investigate accounts due to various reasons, and we are obliged to provide the data.

That is a fact - if you carry on cheating and are caught by GWR or whoever, the train company will want to know about your history.

This will be reviewed at a later date and is not a permanent restriction.

This = your restriction. Behave yourself and they may lift it - but if you don't, then....

Please also note, we will continue to monitor refund activity across Trainline Booking Platforms.”

Am I overthinking?

Yes

 

[mune2025]

That is a fact - if you carry on cheating and are caught by GWR or whoever, the train company will want to know about your history.

This = your restriction. Behave yourself and they may lift it - but if you don't, then....

Yes

THANKS SO MUCH EVERYONE FOR ALL THE INFORMATION

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2025 ==

That is a fact - if you carry on cheating and are caught by GWR or whoever, the train company will want to know about your history.

This = your restriction. Behave yourself and they may lift it - but if you don't, then....

Yes

Sorry I have one more question. Even if the trainline company decide to take an action against despite not repeating the same mistake, can I go for an out of court settlement? Or will they prosecute me and I’d end up with a criminal record

 

[John R]

Trainline won’r prosecute you, but GWR may. It’s highly likely they would settle out of court so long as you are cooperative if they write to you.

 

[mune2025]

It looks like it is a warning. I do not know if they will pass this info on to the train companies themselves could also identify these patterns. It goes without saying that if you are making fraudulent refunds you need to stop and also ensure you purchase tickets that cover your complete journey before boarding the train in future to avoid drawing any further attention to yourself. If you use a railcard make sure it has not expired. If any revenue checks when you are travelling by train pick up any irregularities it is highly likely they would investigate your trainline histo

Trainline won’r prosecute you, but GWR may. It’s highly likely they would settle out of court so long as you are cooperative if they write to you.

Should I email trainline and ask whether they are going to provide these findings to the train company? Im just so worried, and I feel so idiotic for refunding tickets that I used and doing short ticketing.

 

[AlterEgo]

Should I email trainline and ask whether they are going to provide these findings to the train company? Im just so worried, and I feel so idiotic for refunding tickets that I used and doing short ticketing.

No! Just take your warning, stop doing fraud, and stop using Trainline. Your card is marked. Leave them alone.

 

[mune2025]

No! Just take your warning, stop doing fraud, and stop using Trainline. Your card is marked. Leave them alone.

No! Just take your warning, stop doing fraud, and stop using Trainline. Your card is marked. Leave them alone.

I will definitely stop doing that. I’m flying out of the UK for a month. Should I book my train ticket from trainline and use a different company moving forward. So they would m assume that i would have left the country? But at the same time im worried that they will take the matter to court without updating me.

 

[MotCO]

It is easier for GWR or whoever to mount a successful case against you if you are 'caught in the act'. Historical data is less easy to raise a case against you, but a train operating company could ask you awkward questions.

As others have said, make sure you always buy the correct ticket. If you want any specific advice to see if you could save money on your fares legitimately, please raise a separate thread and experts can advise. Alternatively, use the ticket purchasing system promoted by this forum to see if split tickets could work for you. (Note, this forum receives a small share of any savings made if you use this system.)

 

[AlterEgo]

I will definitely stop doing that. I’m flying out of the UK for a month. Should I book my train ticket from trainline and use a different company moving forward. So they would m assume that i would have left the country? But at the same time im worried that they will take the matter to court without updating me.

What's happened to you is a warning to stop doing what you're doing. They aren't going to assume you've left the country if you buy a ticket to Dover or Heathrow.

Stop using Trainline, they are watching you. Buy no more tickets from them, because you're rattled now and can't live with the consequences of petty crime.

 

[John R]

Should I email trainline and ask whether they are going to provide these findings to the train company? Im just so worried, and I feel so idiotic for refunding tickets that I used and doing short ticketing.

Absolutely not. That's tantamount to an admission of guilt.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2025 ==

I will definitely stop doing that. I’m flying out of the UK for a month. Should I book my train ticket from trainline and use a different company moving forward. So they would m assume that i would have left the country? But at the same time im worried that they will take the matter to court without updating me.

You are seriously overthinking things. Just stop the fraudulent behaviour, and cross your fingers that GWR doesn't come after you. And you need to ensure that you pay the correct fare on TfL too.

One other thing - even though you may have every intention of paying for your ticket in future, there are some common traps that people unintentionally fall into, such as buying an online ticket after they have boarded the train (an offence) or letting a railcard expire without noticing. If you come to their attention for any reason, it is very likely that they will review your account, may notice other suspicious activity, and include it in any settlement amount they request from you in exchange for not prosecuting you So you have to be doubly careful that you don't accidentally fall foul of the ticketing rules in future.

 

[Hadders]

Should I email trainline and ask whether they are going to provide these findings to the train company? Im just so worried, and I feel so idiotic for refunding tickets that I used and doing short ticketing.

DO NOT contact Trainline or GWR about this. Wait for them to contact you.

As noted above if you contact them there is a real risk that you would incriminate yourself.

 

[scrapy]

I would delete the booking numbers off your original post. They can be used by GWR / Trainline to link to your posts on this forum.

 

[mune2025]

If you have been short ticketing and refunding used tickets, is there a time limit within which action can be taken against you?

For context, I have stopped doing this but just worried that il get caught for the previous ones.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If you have been short ticketing and refunding used tickets, is there a time limit within which action can be taken against you?

For context, I have stopped doing this but just worried that il get caught for the previous ones.

There are broadly four routes that the railway can go down if they become aware of this:

1) You can be prosecuted in the magistrate's court for one instance: TfL tend to seek to have other cases taken into consideration ('TiC') but off the top of my head I don't think companies on the 'big railway' do TiCs. This has a time limit of six months from when you were caught (in practice a little more to allow the courts to get messages to the defendant).
2) The railway can seek to prosecute a crown court for fraud. This doesn't happen very much (if at all) but there is no six month time limit for crown court prosecutions (n.b. I think that strictly the division for the time limit isn't quite like that, but that's good enough for the moment).
3) The railway can pursue you through the civil courts for unpaid fares as a civil debt - just as a trader could if you'd got them to do some work for you but never paid for it. I believe that the time limit for this is six years.
4) Under threat of one or more of the above, the railway can invite you to make some sort of out of court settlement of the money they think that you owe, plus the cost of their investigations.

The practical upshot of all this is that if after six months or so you have heard nothing from the railway, you can probably relax - but you can only be certain after maybe six years (for a civil claim).

At the risk of stating the obvious, as you have been doing this your choice to stop doing it is the best way to minimise stress over the issue as eventually you can be pretty certain that there will be no comeback to worry about.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you have been short ticketing and refunding used tickets, is there a time limit within which action can be taken against you?

For context, I have stopped doing this but just worried that il get caught for the previous ones.

Fraud - the offence you’re committing by refunding used tickets - has no statute of limitations. Luckily for you this is the railway so they haven’t gone to the police. In many walks of life you just get reported to the police for this sort of thing, and arrested.

 

[mune2025]

Hi all,

Following an RR1 error, I received another email from Trainline today stating that "we share data with TOCs, and they will contact you directly if they require further information, etc."

At this stage, I’m not sure if I’m being investigated, but I am 99.99% certain that the TOCs will reach out to me regarding suspicious refund activity and short-ticketing. For context, I’ve short-ticketed and requested refunds for journeys a total of 27 times (short ticketing) and 4 times (refund requests) over the past two years, plus one journey to London (short ticketing). These trains are run by GWR. Instead of buying a ticket for the full journey, I purchased one from the last station before the final station, saving about £2 per trip. After calculating the amount I would have owed without a Railcard discount, it comes to around £270.

I never knew that this is a criminal offense and I thought if I get caught I would have to pay a penalty. I feel so stupid for putting myself in this mess just to save a couple of quid. Sigh. Foolishness at its highest order.

On top of that, Trainline is suspicious about three more journeys to London, but those refund requests are genuine—I have proof. For example: though the tickets were refunded, I did pay for the journeys by tapping in, and I actually ended up paying more because I didn’t tap in at my actual starting station.

Also, I had short ticketed two occasions where I traveled in trains operated by West Midlands.

My questions are:

1. Will I be approached by these companies separately, meaning I only need to explain the relevant issues to each one?

2. Do you think GWR and West Midlands are likely to settle this with me? I’m really worried about what’s going to happen.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,

Following an RR1 error, I received another email from Trainline today stating that "we share data with TOCs, and they will contact you directly if they require further information, etc."

At this stage, I’m not sure if I’m being investigated, but I am 99.99% certain that the TOCs will reach out to me regarding suspicious refund activity and short-ticketing. For context, I’ve short-ticketed and requested refunds for journeys a total of 27 times (short ticketing) and 4 times (refund requests) over the past two years, plus one journey to London (short ticketing). These trains are run by GWR. Instead of buying a ticket for the full journey, I purchased one from the last station before the final station, saving about £2 per trip. After calculating the amount I would have owed without a Railcard discount, it comes to around £270.

I never knew that this is a criminal offense and I thought if I get caught I would have to pay a penalty. I feel so stupid for putting myself in this mess just to save a couple of quid. Sigh. Foolishness at its highest order.

On top of that, Trainline is suspicious about three more journeys to London, but those refund requests are genuine—I have proof. For example: though the tickets were refunded, I did pay for the journeys by tapping in, and I actually ended up paying more because I didn’t tap in at my actual starting station.

Also, I had short ticketed two occasions where I traveled in trains operated by West Midlands.

My questions are:

1. Will I be approached by these companies separately, meaning I only need to explain the relevant issues to each one?

2. Do you think GWR and West Midlands are likely to settle this with me? I’m really worried about what’s going to happen.

There are other threads on this forum (recent ones) about this sort of thing - so have a look for them to read.

No doubt soon various experts on these will be along to share their views for you to consider.

At this stage definitely do not reply to the message you have been sent

But going forward you MUST stop what you have been doing, it is deliberate evasion and has some potentially serious consequences if you are caught or incriminate yourself. Deliberate evasion is not typically settled via £100 / £50 Penalty Fare processes that you see on posters around stations - because if it was (as I suspect you have calculated) you would just evade payment and pay the occasional £50 Penalty Fare on the rare occasions you got caught. The Railway is not so stupid as to create a system that allows that...

 

[mune2025]

There are other threads on this forum (recent ones) about this sort of thing - so have a look for them to read.

No doubt soon various experts on these will be along to share their views for you to consider.

At this stage definitely do not reply to the message you have been sent

But going forward you MUST stop what you have been doing, it is deliberate evasion and has some potentially serious consequences if you are caught or incriminate yourself. Deliberate evasion is not typically settled via £100 / £50 Penalty Fare processes that you see on posters around stations - because if it was (as I suspect you have calculated) you would just evade payment and pay the occasional £50 Penalty Fare on the rare occasions you got caught. The Railway is not so stupid as to create a system that allows that...

Thank you so much for your response. I stopped doing that the second I got to know it’s a criminal offense. If by any chance do you know the answer to my first question?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much for your response. I stopped doing that the second I got to know it’s a criminal offense. If by any chance do you know the answer to my first question?

Not 100% sure on that. Trainline co-operates with the train companies to use IT to detect potential fraudulent patterns of behaviour (digital fingerprints are all over the sort of stuff you have done and lots of other people too).
They might share this info with either or both of the train companies concerned, who may or may not then seek to contact you about it.

You should check e-mail regularly and spam. But do not reply to anything without getting advice first.

 

[dciuk]

There are other threads on this forum (recent ones) about this sort of thing - so have a look for them to read.

Are you thinking of this one which was from the same OP, but now appears to have been deleted? https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/rr1-error-advice-how-to-proceed.282245

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Mar 2025 ==

Following an RR1 error, I received another email from Trainline today stating that "we share data with TOCs, and they will contact you directly if they require further information, etc."

Are you able to share this email with us (with any identifying details redacted)

 

[WesternLancer]

Are you thinking of this one which was from the same OP, but now appears to have been deleted? https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/rr1-error-advice-how-to-proceed.282245

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Mar 2025 ==

maybe - but IIRC there have been several involving different rail companies (eg Greater Anglia railways)

 

[dciuk]

Do you think GWR and West Midlands are likely to settle this with me? I’m really worried about what’s going to happen.

It is likely they will, however until they contact you and you know what they are asking it is best not to try and contact them. If you do receive any comunication from them, return here to ask for further advice before replying

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Mar 2025 ==

maybe - but IIRC there have been several involving different rail companies (eg Greater Anglia railways)

Greater Anglia was also mentioned in that thread in addition to GWR, however now we are also seeing West Midlands mentioned:

mune2025 said:
I recently received an RR1 error and contacted Trainline about it. Today, I got an email from them, and I’m really panicking. Are they going to prosecute me? Do I need to reply and say I’ll pay the penalty, or are they just warning me that they’ll pass this on to Greater Anglia if any more refund requests are made?
If I don’t make any more refund requests, will they lift the restrictions and not take things further? I’m really scared about what this means. If they decide to investigate further can I pay a penalty and avoid a criminal conviction? Any advices are much appreciated

 

[island]

This is the third thread you've posted about this issue. You were given substantive and accurate replies in the previous two. Why are you asking the same questions over and over? It's a waste of people's time answering your repeated questions.