RR1 Code - Trainline

[greenbean55]

Hello

I often travel back and forth to Cambridge from London for work-related visits. I book the tickets in advance to plan the trips + to make sure they're cheap but sometimes end up not going when my plans change. I then refund the tickets. I have refunded maybe 5/6 tickets in the past year doing this but each time I did not travel and stayed at home.

Today I tried to refund a ticket and got an RR1 error code. Called trainline and they initiated the refund and I explained, but now I am worried they are going to investigate me for fraud after reading about the RR1 code.

There were also a couple of times where I accidentally booked without a railcard/ for the wrong date/ a single instead of a return and then I immediately refunded and rebooked the tickets, and travelled on them.

So it must look like I have refunded a lot of the same journeys but it is honestly to do with disorganisation and changed plans.

Anyone any advice?

 

[duffield]

I don't think there's much you can do apart from identifying, collecting and keeping safe all the evidence you have to show the refunds are legit. For example any emails, screenshots etc. which show you purchasing a different ticket after refunding. As all your refunds are legitimate, they will have no ticket scans to give the hard evidence of fraud that refunding already scanned tickets would give, so I would think the worst thing that will happen is difficulty with future refunds, and possibly an accusatory letter or email with no actual substance to any legal threats made.

If you do receive a letter, you should come back here and post it for advice before making any response.

I suppose it's also a good idea to double and triple check any future ticket purchases before you finalise them, to ensure you do not have to refund them for reasons such as forgetting to add your railcard, or selecting the wrong date. Ideally you should only ever be refunding when you are unable to travel.

 

[WesternLancer]

Welcome - you'll get some good advice here - hope the below is helpful but no doubt others will correct me if I have anything wrong

Trainline have systems to detect refund patters they think may be strange / not legit - this is because it seems like people refunding tickets they have actually used is a significant cause of evasion (and we see people on the forum who admit to doing this when caught) - so I suspect their systems have flagged your account.

My first advice would be to stop using Trainline - there are lots of other retailers and they all sell the same tickets (Trainline has no access to cheaper tickets than any other retailer does) - you could try the ticketing sit associated with this forum (where the commission helps run the forum to give advice to people) - or use the train company you travel with who will sell tickets

But on your specific point - to take any enforcement action / prosecution against you they would need to prove the tickets you refunded were actually used for travel - and indeed that it was you who used them. I suspect this would be quite difficult to do if things are as you have said

Furthermore - whilst there is no requirement for a passenger to scan a ticket when entering a platform eg at a barrier etc - since there are lots of tickets that can't be scanned and lots of stations with no barriers / scanners - clearly a scanned ticket helps prove that you did use a ticket (or at least went through a barrier) - so when you do travel it may be helpful to actively scan your ticket even if the barrier is switched out and open - in the sense this would help show a difference in behaviour for travel vs refunds - tho this won't be a deal breaker because...
However
There can be good reason not to do this (!) if you have the choice to do so - ie if you scanned your ticket, got to the platform, found you train delayed or cancelled so you wished to enact your right to a 100% refund of your ticket on the basis of train delay or cancellation (note this is different from Delay Repay compensation which is what you can claim if you do travel and the train is delayed) - then obtaining the refund form Trainline as the retailer when the ticket has been scanned is likely to be more hassle than it should be...as they would probably claim the ticket had been 'used'

S0 my advice would be

1) start buying ticket from another retailer that does not accuse customers of fraudulent behaviour (but do not delete your Trainline account since you might need access to info on it if you receive accusations)

2) never refund tickets you are not entitle to refund

3) make sure you know the difference between your rights to refund tickets vs right to things like Delay Repay

4) if you receive any communications about these ticket refunds do not respond to them in any way but head back here for specific advice on what best to do abut such communications

 

[Haywain]

Hello

I often travel back and forth to Cambridge from London for work-related visits. I book the tickets in advance to plan the trips + to make sure they're cheap but sometimes end up not going when my plans change. I then refund the tickets. I have refunded maybe 5/6 tickets in the past year doing this but each time I did not travel and stayed at home.

Today I tried to refund a ticket and got an RR1 error code. Called trainline and they initiated the refund and I explained, but now I am worried they are going to investigate me for fraud after reading about the RR1 code.

There were also a couple of times where I accidentally booked without a railcard/ for the wrong date/ a single instead of a return and then I immediately refunded and rebooked the tickets, and travelled on them.

So it must look like I have refunded a lot of the same journeys but it is honestly to do with disorganisation and changed plans.

Anyone any advice?

You've encountered something that Trainline have been doing for a long time in blocking automated refunds when there are an abnormal number of them being made. This is unlikely to be for tickets bought and refunded immediately because of an error in booking but will be where there has been a possibility of the tickets having been used. In simple terms, they are just seeking to make things a little more difficult for you as they know that removing the automated option will stop those making fraudulent refund requests but not those who are genuine.

 

[John R]

Buying tickets in advance through Trainline incurs booking fees which many other operators don’t charge, so you haven’t been “making sure they are cheap”. Refundable tickets are just as cheap if booked on the day, either online or at the station.

As you’ve found out, then refunding them on a regular basis does expose you to scrutiny which you probably rather not have. So for both reasons, you might want to consider purchasing on the day, or at the very least not through Trainline.