RPI blitz at Derby this evening.

[Bantamzen]

Trains cancelled because of staff shortages but an abundance of staff checking tickets, I know they are two different jobs but....................

So you are saying that RPI staff can be magically transformed into fully trained drivers at a snap of control's fingers?

 

[Antman]

So you are saying that RPI staff can be magically transformed into fully trained drivers at a snap of control's fingers?

That's not what I said at all is it......

 

[GoneSouth]

Full details here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/116124/response/286152/attach/3/R Agreement.pdf
Very brief summary - Derby City Council contributed funds towards the extension of the station footbridge to the Pride Park side and, in return, 'the railway' committed to allowing certain categories of person free passage over the bridge to/from the Pride Park area.

Similar arrangements were proposed in Sheffield but nothing came of them and the footbridge remains open to all.

Am I right in thinking there are no ticket barriers at the main entrance to Sheffield station? If so, it must be about the largest station on the network without them. Anybody know ?

 

[RPI]

Trains cancelled because of staff shortages but an abundance of staff checking tickets, I know they are two different jobs but....................

Again, your point? Should the RPI'S be paid to stay at home then as there may not be a driver for the next Matlock?

 

[Dore & Totley]

Am I right in thinking there are no ticket barriers at the main entrance to Sheffield station? If so, it must be about the largest station on the network without them. Anybody know ?

Hi. There are no barriers at Sheffield Station. EMT tried blockading the bridge at the Supertram end a few years ago but withdrew under pressure

 

[NoOnesFool]

Am I right in thinking there are no ticket barriers at the main entrance to Sheffield station? If so, it must be about the largest station on the network without them. Anybody know ?

There are no barriers per we but RPOs have been known to strike by the bridge there and Northern RPOs are present on platform 3 and platform 4.

 

[mike57]

I can understand the need to ensure people don't fare dodge, but in my opinion the best place to check tickets is actually on the trains, I realise when trains are overcrowded this isn't possible, but on train checks causes minimum inconvenience unlike barrier checks which create queues and the inevitably angry travelers who are going to miss their train. There have been extra onboard checks between Scarborough and York since before Xmas, much better than trying to check tickets at an exit barrier, and it has rounded up some characters who think that buying a ticket is optional.

 

[sheff1]

Am I right in thinking there are no ticket barriers at the main entrance to Sheffield station? If so, it must be about the largest station on the network without them. Anybody know ?

York is larger and also has no barriers. Passenger numbers at both are virtually the same (and both have a Tap bar on the platform ).

 

[Killingworth]

There are no barriers per we but RPOs have been known to strike by the bridge there and Northern RPOs are present on platform 3 and platform 4.

A delicate issue for safety reasons. People trying to evade the RPOs try to duck round them on the edge of the platform. The station needs remodelling for electrification (one day) when a new pedestrian bridge across the station for non travellers will have to be provided. There is one at the south end but it's old with steps at both ends, totally enclosed and unatractive. The one across the centre of the station now being used was not thought through when built to connect the station to Supertram.

 

[flitwickbeds]

I can understand the need to ensure people don't fare dodge, but in my opinion the best place to check tickets is actually on the trains

Just not practical on long or frequent stopping trains. Short of the guard remembering everyone who's been checked and who hasn't, s/he has to check every person after every stop.

If you wait until the part of the journey between the penultimate stop and the destination, you (a) miss everyone who alighted before that point, and (b) may not have time to check everyone on the train.

 

[CheekyBandit]

A delicate issue for safety reasons. People trying to evade the RPOs try to duck round them on the edge of the platform. The station needs remodelling for electrification (one day) when a new pedestrian bridge across the station for non travellers will have to be provided. There is one at the south end but it's old with steps at both ends, totally enclosed and unatractive. The one across the centre of the station now being used was not thought through when built to connect the station to Supertram.

What about a footbridge like the one at St Neots? Also at Sheffield I have often sneaked out of the station via the 'secret' exit on the northern end of P1 unchallenged. It is a handy short cut to the bus station from a train at that platform amd when traffic on the main road is light.

 

[Killingworth]

What about a footbridge like the one at St Neots? Also at Sheffield I have often sneaked out of the station via the 'secret' exit on the northern end of P1 unchallenged. It is a handy short cut to the bus station from a train at that platform and when traffic on the main road is light.

There's no need to sneak at Sheffield. It's very rare to encounter any type of barrier activity anywhere for safety reasons due to congestion caused. Crush by the stairs and danger of falling onto live running tracks elsewhere. New bridges are required to provide the height for electrification so nothing will be done until then.

 

[moleman212]

I really think some members on here would rather the railways ran with no passengers at all going by the acrimony some posters get.

Can you not see that a company that zealously pursues revenue collection, while at the same time failing to recruit and retain enough drivers and conductors, should have its priorities questioned? No wonder the railways get a bad press with the attitude some staff have. Luckily, most staff do a sterling job, but there are some who view passengers as a necessary evil...

 

[Raul_Duke]

I really think some members on here would rather the railways ran with no passengers at all going by the acrimony some posters get.

Can you not see that a company that zealously pursues revenue collection, while at the same time failing to recruit and retain enough drivers and conductors, should have its priorities questioned? No wonder the railways get a bad press with the attitude some staff have. Luckily, most staff do a sterling job, but there are some who view passengers as a necessary evil...

Absolutely. My local Tesco often doesn’t have enough tills open and it is an absolute DISGRACE that they get all weird if I just try and walk out with my shopping instead of paying for it.

 

[moleman212]

Absolutely. My local Tesco often doesn’t have enough tills open and it is an absolute DISGRACE that they get all weird if I just try and walk out with my shopping instead of paying for it.

Tesco won't shut their store for half an hour at no notice during opening hours and tell you all to wait until they feel like opening again...so your analogy doesn't fit I'm afraid.

 

[Raul_Duke]

Tesco won't shut their store for half an hour at no notice during opening hours and tell you all to wait until they feel like opening again...so your analogy doesn't fit I'm afraid.

Yes, that’s it. Your train is cancelled/late because the company just simply can’t be arsed to run it. Just to annoy you Moleman. And they all watch you on CCTV and have a big laugh about it.

 

[Antman]

Absolutely. My local Tesco often doesn’t have enough tills open and it is an absolute DISGRACE that they get all weird if I just try and walk out with my shopping instead of paying for it.

If you're unhappy with the service at Tesco there are other supermarkets available, train passengers don't have that option.

 

[moleman212]

If you're unhappy with the service at Tesco there are other supermarkets available, train passengers don't have that option.

Indeed. Most passengers don't have the luxury of choice...

 

[Antman]

I really think some members on here would rather the railways ran with no passengers at all going by the acrimony some posters get.

Can you not see that a company that zealously pursues revenue collection, while at the same time failing to recruit and retain enough drivers and conductors, should have its priorities questioned? No wonder the railways get a bad press with the attitude some staff have. Luckily, most staff do a sterling job, but there are some who view passengers as a necessary evil...

Exactly the point point I made earlier in the thread but some people didn't get it.

 

[Raul_Duke]

If you're unhappy with the service at Tesco there are other supermarkets available, train passengers don't have that option.

Indeed. Most passengers don't have the luxury of choice...

Exactly the point point I made earlier in the thread but some people didn't get it.

So therefore you shouldn’t be asked to show your ticket?

 

[bb21]

Can we stop with the analogies please? It doesn't work and just causes more arguments. Thanks.

 

[Belperpete]

many of the stations on the Matlock line have ticket machines now

But unfortunately the TVMs are unable to issue Derbyshire student discount tickets.

My point about the stations being open is that someone can easily get on a train at one of these stations without a ticket, and then use their bridge pass to get through the barriers at Derby, hence the RPI checks at Derby.

 

[70014IronDuke]

But unfortunately the TVMs are unable to issue Derbyshire student discount tickets.

My point about the stations being open is that someone can easily get on a train at one of these stations without a ticket, and then use their bridge pass to get through the barriers at Derby, hence the RPI checks at Derby.

Whether it's fare evasion or otherwise, but from memory, most, if not all, of the Matlock line stations have seen a significant decline - 5-10% - in traffic in the latest ORR station usage statistics. Matlock itself is 21,000, of 10% down, for example. Maybe someone has noticed this and decided to check whether reality on the ground matches the theory.

 

[vlad]

Tesco won't shut their store for half an hour at no notice during opening hours and tell you all to wait until they feel like opening again...so your analogy doesn't fit I'm afraid.

Morrisons does!

 

[LowLevel]

Whether it's fare evasion or otherwise, but from memory, most, if not all, of the Matlock line stations have seen a significant decline - 5-10% - in traffic in the latest ORR station usage statistics. Matlock itself is 21,000, of 10% down, for example. Maybe someone has noticed this and decided to check whether reality on the ground matches the theory.

Derby remodelling is the cause of that I would expect. The Matlock line service was much reduced for various big chunks and rail replacement buses aren't exactly known for ticket inspections.

 

[mailbyrail]

Matlock line was closed for much of the Derby resignalling - the replacement buses worked well, but passengers avoided them if possible. Matlock Bath illuminations by bus up the A6 was out of the question. I used the car whenever I needed to go up and down the valley.

 

[Bevan Price]

Tesco won't shut their store for half an hour at no notice during opening hours and tell you all to wait until they feel like opening again...so your analogy doesn't fit I'm afraid.

I know of one local smallish (shop + post office) that sometimes closes without warning, usually I think when cash supplies are being delivered or taken away.

 

[Belperpete]

Whether it's fare evasion or otherwise, but from memory, most, if not all, of the Matlock line stations have seen a significant decline - 5-10% - in traffic in the latest ORR station usage statistics. Matlock itself is 21,000, of 10% down, for example. Maybe someone has noticed this and decided to check whether reality on the ground matches the theory.

Didn't the Matlock line have one of the largest increases in passenger numbers awhile back?

As others have already mentioned, the Derby remodelling must have had a massive impact on the most recent traffic figures. From what I recall, they were pretty hot at ensuring people on the replacement buses had tickets. However, at places like Duffield and Belper, the hourly rail replacement buses were competing with a 15 minute interval regular bus service. And then when you got to Derby, you may have then needed to get on yet another replacement bus to continue your onward journey.

 

[js1000]

Struggling to see much of a real connection between RPIs doing their job - and a lack of drivers.

My point is that in Northern's case: too many RPIs - not enough drivers. If you look at the Northern franchise, Delay Repay claims have probably crippled the franchise due to the amount of claims arising from deteriorating cancellations and delays. I know Network Rail often pay for these but the processing of these claims is what costs TOCs out.

 

[Killingworth]

My point is that in Northern's case: too many RPIs - not enough drivers. If you look at the Northern franchise, Delay Repay claims have probably crippled the franchise due to the amount of claims arising from deteriorating cancellations and delays. I know Network Rail often pay for these but the processing of these claims is what costs TOCs out.

It's not either or. We're repeatedly told that in a few months time there'll be enough drivers once the big training backlog is cleared and trainers and trained can operate live trains for passenger use as the stock is also released into service.

Maximising revenue is vital and patrolling the system to discourage fare avoidance is necessary. There's a fine balance between cost of that patrolling and the amount of revenue obtained. Ideally no Penalty Fares should be levied once all realise travel without a ticket will attract that surcharge. If RPIs don't find many evaders they'll have done their job.