Royal Welsh Show Train

[The exile]

So you consider that it would be a trivial matter to just find a driver in a depot somewhere and tell him to take a train out and drive along a route he doesn't know, possibly in a unit he hasn't driven?
Oh dear!!

No / but it is the duty of management to ensure that staffing and stock levels are robust enough to cope with everything that might predictably happen and run the advertised service - by which I mean the one in the season’s timetable as published for Summer / Winter + any advertised extras. Only exceptions are of course last minute emergencies (by which I don’t mean 1 driver calling in sick - but 9 Or 10.

 

[Western 52]

I travelled on the return train this evening from Pantyffynnon to Bridgend. More or less on time and with few passengers in the 2 153s. Maybe some had alighted before I joined.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I travelled on the return train this evening from Pantyffynnon to Bridgend. More or less on time and with few passengers in the 2 153s. Maybe some had alighted before I joined.

Interesting, but how few is few? 10? 20?

Even 20 would be a bonus, given the general level of unreliability of services on the line, along with the cancellations on the first two days of this train, I should think. Even with the current level of daily usage a new loop at Ammanford or Pantyfynnon to reduce the many late-running trains (which won't happen, of course).

Were the few 'normals' or could you detect the presence of rail freaks?

 

[Western 52]

Interesting, but how few is few? 10? 20?

Even 20 would be a bonus, given the general level of unreliability of services on the line, along with the cancellations on the first two days of this train, I should think. Even with the current level of daily usage a new loop at Ammanford or Pantyfynnon to reduce the many late-running trains (which won't happen, of course).

Were the few 'normals' or could you detect the presence of rail freaks?

Maybe about 15 but we didn't count. At least 2 enthusiasts, both of us to do the Hendy chord. Some left the train at Pontarddulais and others may have left at other stations before we boarded at Pantyffynnon. Very few on to Cardiff. I left at Bridgend to catch the 67 to Swansea.

 

[Envoy]

I guess that most people would not risk catching the RWS show train due to previous unreliability to deliver.

 

[Western 52]

I guess that most people would not risk catching the RWS show train due to previous unreliability to deliver.

Indeed. Same applies to the whole service on the line these days due to regular cancellations and some horrendous late running.

 

[Envoy]

Indeed. Same applies to the whole service on the line these days due to regular cancellations and some horrendous late running.

Terrible rolling stock as well - even at the best of times. It seems to me to be bonkers to keep sprinters going on this route all for the sake of ordering a few more 197’s.

 

[Western 52]

Terrible rolling stock as well - even at the best of times. It seems to me to be bonkers to keep sprinters going on this route all for the sake of ordering a few more 197’s.

The 153s are certainly a poor choice for a route marketed for its scenic beauty. Smaller children can't see out properly due to the high window ledges and the seats are cramped.

 

[Jez]

I guess that most people would not risk catching the RWS show train due to previous unreliability to deliver.

I personally wouldn't risk it. Not with the current poor service. Even though travelling by train is my first choice.

Builth isn't the sort of place you would want to be standed! It's no Cardiff Central where there are other options to get home!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2023 ==

Terrible rolling stock as well - even at the best of times. It seems to me to be bonkers to keep sprinters going on this route all for the sake of ordering a few more 197’s.

I believe the only reason they are forced to use 153s indefinitely on the HOWL is because the plan changed with the 170s going to EMR. A 170 is certainly an upgrade on a pair of 153s.

It's a pity 158s can't work rhe HOWL as keeping a handful of them would have been better than the 153s.

 

[Class 170101]

I believe the only reason they are forced to use 153s indefinitely on the HOWL is because the plan changed with the 170s going to EMR. A 170 is certainly an upgrade on a pair of 153s.

It's a pity 158s can't work rhe HOWL as keeping a handful of them would have been better than the 153s.

But both 158s and 170s are a waste for this line and I would think take longer than a 153 due to poorer acceleration. Seems like in capacity terms as well the 153 pairing was adequate.

 

[Western 52]

The 153s are around 35 years old, so how long will TfW be able to maintain this micro fleet economically for? What's the plan beyond these units?

 

[MotCO]

Sounds like some 230s would be ideal.

(I'll get my coat!)

 

[Jez]

But both 158s and 170s are a waste for this line and I would think take longer than a 153 due to poorer acceleration. Seems like in capacity terms as well the 153 pairing was adequate.

True. I was more thinking of passenger comfort as a 158 and a 170 both far better than a 153.

In terms of capacity yes a pair of 153s will be good as often there is a single 153 now which isn't always full..

 

[Envoy]

They would get more passengers if they had decent trains. I would not recommend to any local or tourist a scenic trip on the Heart of Wales line. They would also get more people using the line of they had direct services from Cardiff via the chord at Pontarddulais. I include not only tourists in that but locals in east Carmarthenshire who at present would be more inclined to drive to Cardiff via the M4.

 

[70014IronDuke]

They would get more passengers if they had decent trains.

Well, this is a kind of truism - but yes - if they ran, and ran roughly on time 95% of the time (which, sadly, the HoW all too regularly fais to do).

I would not recommend to any local or tourist a scenic trip on the Heart of Wales line.

I might agree with you, but why?

They would also get more people using the line of they had direct services from Cardiff via the chord at Pontarddulais. I include not only tourists in that but locals in east Carmarthenshire who at present would be more inclined to drive to Cardiff via the M4.

Er, this is confusing.

a) Are you are advocating some sort of regular Cardiff - Llandeilo - (or even) Llandovery or Llandrindod service?

Or reopening* the Swansea District line for some sort of Carmarthen - Cardiff service?

Or both? 'Cos you can't serve Carmarthanshire from Cardiff by going oop north at Hendy.

* Yes, I know the odd service does run that way each day, but it is effectively not open for passenger services. Fut for the record, I think it is a sadly under-utilised piece of infrastructure.

However, this is all straying into the sort of space that I fear will result in the red text of wrath from a mod soon appearing.

 

[Envoy]

Well, this is a kind of truism - but yes - if they ran, and ran roughly on time 95% of the time (which, sadly, the HoW all too regularly fais to do).


I might agree with you, but why?


Er, this is confusing.

a) Are you are advocating some sort of regular Cardiff - Llandeilo - (or even) Llandovery or Llandrindod service?

Or reopening* the Swansea District line for some sort of Carmarthen - Cardiff service?

Or both? 'Cos you can't serve Carmarthanshire from Cardiff by going oop north at Hendy.

* Yes, I know the odd service does run that way each day, but it is effectively not open for passenger services. Fut for the record, I think it is a sadly under-utilised piece of infrastructure.

However, this is all straying into the sort of space that I fear will result in the red text of wrath from a mod soon appearing.

I am suggesting that a direct Cardiff > HoW service would attract more customers than the present service going via Llanelli. A bus link between Llandeilo and Carmarthen would provide a quicker short cut for anybody wishing to go from mid Wales to places west of Carmarthen. Local buses could connect Pontarddulais with Llanelli.

The other way of providing better links between the HoW Carmarthenshire and south east Wales would be a new station in the triangle at Pontarddulais (with P&R & bus link to Cross Hands). Direct services from Cardiff using the Swansea District Line to Carmarthen & beyond could be timed to swap passengers at such a new station with H0W trains remaining on the via Llanelli route to Swansea.

Anyway, I think that anybody wanting to continue about such matters should really start a new thread.

 

[TPO]

They would get more passengers if they had decent trains. I would not recommend to any local or tourist a scenic trip on the Heart of Wales line. They would also get more people using the line of they had direct services from Cardiff via the chord at Pontarddulais. I include not only tourists in that but locals in east Carmarthenshire who at present would be more inclined to drive to Cardiff via the M4.

Indeed.

There's an express bus (X13) runs between Llandeilo and Swansea via Ammanford every half hour Mon to Sat and hourly on Sun, runs quite late into the evening. The route is limited stops.

The potential demand is clear for say a Llandeilo-Swansea local shuttle at the south end of HOWL. And if the Gwaen-Cae-Gurwen branch was converted to passenger trains (currently freight only) it would pick up the rest of the Aman Valley (which is surprisingly populous).

The streets up the sides of the A474 Road through there are narrow, jammed with parked cars, yet TfW and their masters in the Senedd grandstand about reducing car traffic..... whilst letting a potentially useful mini-Valleys die a slow death.

TPO

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Indeed.

There's an express bus (X13) runs between Llandeilo and Swansea via Ammanford every half hour Mon to Sat and hourly on Sun, runs quite late into the evening. The route is limited stops.

The potential demand is clear for say a Llandeilo-Swansea local shuttle at the south end of HOWL. And if the Gwaen-Cae-Gurwen branch was converted to passenger trains (currently freight only) it would pick up the rest of the Aman Valley (which is surprisingly populous).

The streets up the sides of the A474 Road through there are narrow, jammed with parked cars, yet TfW and their masters in the Senedd grandstand about reducing car traffic..... whilst letting a potentially useful mini-Valleys die a slow death.

TPO

Know the area well ! - the GCG line is now Network Changed out of use , but there is a reasonable business case to run it to as far as Ammanford (slap in the center of the town) , and potentially up to say Garnant or GCG at lesser benefit cost ratio. The line will deteriorate quickly unless some pro-active work is done soon(ish) to protect the asset. There was a SW Metro study done some recent years ago - and might be worth a review - but of course with an overspend looming on the Cardiff Valleys schemes and all the rest , financial support is very challenging.

It would certainly bring a railway back to where there are more people than on the Central / Heart Of Wales line , which wonderful though it is , lacks people !

 

[DelW]

It's a pity that when the old LNWR line from Pontarddulais to Swansea Victoria was closed, a way couldn't have been found to keep the northern section with a new east-facing connection to the main line at Gowerton. That would have allowed a much more direct connection from the HoW into Swansea without the slow Llanelli reversal. Even now there doesn't seem to be anything in the way of the potential Gowerton connection, though it will obviously never happen now.

 

[Western 52]

It's a pity that when the old LNWR line from Pontarddulais to Swansea Victoria was closed, a way couldn't have been found to keep the northern section with a new east-facing connection to the main line at Gowerton. That would have allowed a much more direct connection from the HoW into Swansea without the slow Llanelli reversal. Even now there doesn't seem to be anything in the way of the potential Gowerton connection, though it will obviously never happen now.

The trackbed has been built on in many locations, especially in Gorseinon.

 

[Markdvdman]

I caugh the 2:18pm Swansea to Llandybie train as I wanted to walk from the station to Gorslas with a heavy backpack. Did it in 65mins. Anyway, it was a 150. Quite a few onboard, and it was 2 mins late leaving Llanelli afte r along wait, then another 9 mins late for the delayed passing train from Shrewsbury. It was only about 5 mins late at Llandybie I guess as only Ammanford before my stop did anybody get off.

It is sad about the Show all the cancelled trains as it used to be a highlight for enthusiasts. Seems to be a common theme now. Yesterday and today, bus replacements due to a signaller being ill.

 

[RJ]

It was probably one of the more enjoyable rail replacements I did on the Monday. 50mph cruising most of the way and happy passengers. I was slightly amused that local people along the Heart of Wales corridor saw the bus, got in their car and chased it for miles until the next station stop. I guess not so many unfamiliar buses grace those roads. People at Port Talbot Parkway were waiting for it but otherwise it was completely unadvertised.

Nice drive back through Bannau Brycheiniog too.

 

[DelW]

The trackbed has been built on in many locations, especially in Gorseinon.

Yes, I was just meaning that where the connection would/could have been built at Gowerton doesn't seem to have much in its way even now; I realise that there are other blockages which would prevent the link being rebuilt, quite apart from its lack of a remotely positive cost/benefit ratio.