Royal Welsh Show 2025

[Jez]

TFW have announced details of this years Royal Welsh show timetable.

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It seems this year the service will run to Llandrindod according to RTT rather than Builth Road as usual.This is a good decision given the set gets stabled at Llandrindod anyway.

The service will run from Cardiff at 0659 on Monday/Wednesday/Thurs with an arrival at Builth Road at 0954 calling at Bridgend, Port Talbot and then appears to go via Neath (not calling) and Landore rather than the Swansea District Line, calling at Llanelli, Bynea and then all stations to Llandrindod. But on Tuesday there is an earlier departure from Cardiff at 0632 and according to RTT it will go via the district line calling at Bridgend, Port Talbot then Pontarddulais etc arriving in Builth Road a lot earlier.

Any guesses what might be booked for the service? Im guessing a 150 or a pair of 150s maybe if there are enough spare.

I should add the return service leaves Llandrindod at 1815 and Builth Road at 1824. As well as this special service the regular HOWL services are scheduled to run.

 

[70014IronDuke]

TFW have announced details of this years Royal Welsh show timetable.

Events | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

It seems this year the service will run to Llandrindod according to RTT rather than Builth Road as usual.This is a good decision given the set gets stabled at Llandrindod anyway.

Hooray! Maybe someone from TfW reads this discussion group - something I suggested a year or two back - a no brainer, frankly.

The service will run from Cardiff at 0659 on Monday/Wednesday/Thurs with an arrival at Builth Road at 0954 calling at Bridgend, Port Talbot and then appears to go via Neath (not calling) and Landore rather than the Swansea District Line, calling at Llanelli, Bynea and then all stations to Llandrindod. But on Tuesday there is an earlier departure from Cardiff at 0632 and according to RTT it will go via the district line calling at Bridgend, Port Talbot then Pontarddulais etc arriving in Builth Road a lot earlier.

Funny that they should only use the Swansea District line for just one day of the four. Anyone know why? Route knowledge, perhaps? I mean, not enough crews these days sign the route?

Anyway, let's hope the service runs for all four days on time and everyone should be happy.

 

[Jez]

I wondered if that was the reason why it is only going via the district line on one of the days. The return journey appears to go via Llanelli and Landore on all 4 days. Perhaps there is a clash with a freight path on the other days.

Im not sure how they work it out with train crew. Do they taxi Carmarthen train crew to Cardiff for the start of the service that morning or do they use Cardiff train crew to Llanelli and then swap to Carmarthen as only Carmathen sign the HOWL. Either way it must be a bit of a pain and just as well its only 4 times in 12 months.

Good to see some effort is being made to promote it this year as well.

 

[Watershed]

I wondered if that was the reason why it is only going via the district line on one of the days. The return journey appears to go via Llanelli and Landore on all 4 days. Perhaps there is a clash with a freight path on the other days.

Im not sure how they work it out with train crew. Do they taxi Carmarthen train crew to Cardiff for the start of the service that morning or do they use Cardiff train crew to Llanelli and then swap to Carmarthen as only Carmathen sign the HOWL. Either way it must be a bit of a pain and just as well its only 4 times in 12 months.

Good to see some effort is being made to promote it this year as well.

Last time I looked at this service it was either a pass ride or taxi for Carmarthen crew to Llanelli, where they took over from Cardiff crew, with them being taxied/passing back to Carmarthen after working just that one section from Llanelli to Llandrindod, and vice versa for the evening service. Like you say, it's not very efficient from a crewing perspective because of the way the route knowledge works for the HoW line.

 

[Jez]

Last time I looked at this service it was either a pass ride or taxi for Carmarthen crew to Llanelli, where they took over from Cardiff crew, with them being taxied/passing back to Carmarthen after working just that one section from Llanelli to Llandrindod, and vice versa for the evening service. Like you say, it's not very efficient from a crewing perspective because of the way the route knowledge works for the HoW line.

Could explain why it goes via Llanelli (even on the day it does go via the district it goes down to Llanelli and then calls at Bynea, Llangennech etc) Before it always dd Swansea District then called at Pontardulais. So i assume the swap had to happen at Port Talbot unless Cardiff could sign the small section off the the district line into Pontardulais.

As you say its not very efficient. But they most likely just put up with it as it only happens 4 days a year.

 

[Watershed]

Could explain why it goes via Llanelli (even on the day it does go via the district it goes down to Llanelli and then calls at Bynea, Llangennech etc) Before it always dd Swansea District then called at Pontardulais. So i assume the swap had to happen at Port Talbot unless Cardiff could sign the small section off the the district line into Pontardulais.

As you say its not very efficient. But they most likely just put up with it as it only happens 4 days a year.

No idea to be honest. It could be to provide connectivity from those stations, which in turn allows quicker connections from Carmarthen etc.

 

[sd0733]

Any guesses what might be booked for the service? Im guessing a 150 or a pair of 150s maybe if there are enough spare

Correct! Booked for a pair of 150s each day.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

These extra trains were paid for by the SRA initially as a "direct grant" - one off for passenger benefit purposes ,and subsequently rolled forward into the passenger service requirement in the newer "franchises" ........you can imagine it was supported by someone with a bit of an interest in matters Welsh.


2 extra 150's were added to the Wales and West / Wessex pool for such workings , and also for use in summer Weymouth line strenghening , Rugby traffic , and various other worthwhile capacity innovations. Some creative thinking to get the extra costs justified

 

[70014IronDuke]

These extra trains were paid for by the SRA initially as a "direct grant" - one off for passenger benefit purposes ,and subsequently rolled forward into the passenger service requirement in the newer "franchises" ........you can imagine it was supported by someone with a bit of an interest in matters Welsh.


2 extra 150's were added to the Wales and West / Wessex pool for such workings , and also for use in summer Weymouth line strenghening , Rugby traffic , and various other worthwhile capacity innovations. Some creative thinking to get the extra costs justified

Very crafty, some of them boyos from the Valleys. Let's hope the bean counters don't look too closely at the books.

Incidentally, some person(s) at TfW (?) continues to show innovative concern for the HoWL, as proved by the running of an earlier third Sunday return working over the line in August. That's never been tried previously, has it (at least in recent decades)?

The third train greatly enhances possibillities of day trips along the line, as well as 'genuine' improved connectivity at the northern end for onward travel beyond Shrewsbury.

I just hope they all run without negative incidents - 'issue with the traincrew' etc, ruining the plan.

I think these inititives are important elements advertising the route to the uninitiated.

 

[Jez]

Correct! Booked for a pair of 150s each day.

A good educated guess!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2025 ==

Incidentally, some person(s) at TfW (?) continues to show innovative concern for the HoWL, as proved by the running of an earlier third Sunday return working over the line in August. That's never been tried previously, has it (at least in recent decades)?

The third train greatly enhances possibillities of day trips along the line, as well as 'genuine' improved connectivity at the northern end for onward travel beyond Shrewsbury.

I like the new Sunday service as well, as there is so much more possibility for people to travel for leisure or to make longer journeys as you say.

I was quite disappointed they reduced the weekday service from 5 to 4 trains again. There are now massive gaps especially in the afternoon, a 5 hour gap from the lunchtime to evening service from Swansea.

It will be interesting to hear how well used the Royal Welsh train and indeed the other HOWL services are next week, certainly compared to the usual passenger loadings on the HOWL around this time of year.

Also if it does run as a pair of 150s as booked. In future years if there are no longer Sprinters at Canton they are going to have to clear 197s for the HOWL (which will make sense in the long term) or possibly amend the special train to start at Swansea not Cardiff if Sprinters are indeed still needed.

 

[DelW]

I was quite disappointed they reduced the weekday service from 5 to 4 trains again. There are now massive gaps especially in the afternoon, a 5 hour gap from the lunchtime to evening service from Swansea.

Though there is of course a commitment to revert to 5tpd at an unspecified date, as mentioned in post 117 and others in this thread:

Could the Heart of Wales timetable be improved?

This is the type of point I was going to raise, the power of the right promotion is incredibly strong. It seems unlikely that this route will ever make much from commuting or shopping trips, but the leisure market could have a lot of potential. I do wonder whether there isn't scope to improve...

www.railforums.co.uk

(Link to a discussion thread on the HoWL timetable)

 

[Jez]

Though there is of course a commitment to revert to 5tpd at an unspecified date, as mentioned in post 117 and others in this thread:

Could the Heart of Wales timetable be improved?

This is the type of point I was going to raise, the power of the right promotion is incredibly strong. It seems unlikely that this route will ever make much from commuting or shopping trips, but the leisure market could have a lot of potential. I do wonder whether there isn't scope to improve...

www.railforums.co.uk

(Link to a discussion thread on the HoWL timetable)

Thank you. Will take a look at that thread.

 

[70014IronDuke]

One thing the new timetable seems to have brought is an improvement in time keeping and reliability.

Yes, there are still 'half-service cancellations' ie turning a train at Llandod because the opposite working has been caped for whatever reason, but from fairly regular observations, the often chaotic late running, especially south of Llandeilo, seem to have largely been sorted out.

In part, of course, this is helped by longer dwell times at Llandod, typically of 12-15 minutes, but I'm sure the locals appreciate the more reliable service.

 

[Jez]

One thing the new timetable seems to have brought is an improvement in time keeping and reliability.

Yes, there are still 'half-service cancellations' ie turning a train at Llandod because the opposite working has been caped for whatever reason, but from fairly regular observations, the often chaotic late running, especially south of Llandeilo, seem to have largely been sorted out.

In part, of course, this is helped by longer dwell times at Llandod, typically of 12-15 minutes, but I'm sure the locals appreciate the more reliable service.

Thats good to hear. One thing that puts me off the HOWL is the risk of cancellations when there is an infrequent service. Saying that if i did a trip to say Llanwrtyd id know the train crew would need to get back if i was catching the next train back down even if the North end was cancelled. Otherwise its a massive risk.

I look foeward to seeing whether the pair of 150s actually run on the show special tomorrow and any news about how busy the service is.

 

[Bikeman78]

Also if it does run as a pair of 150s as booked. In future years if there are no longer Sprinters at Canton they are going to have to clear 197s for the HOWL (which will make sense in the long term) or possibly amend the special train to start at Swansea not Cardiff if Sprinters are indeed still needed.

Once the 150s have gone, the only practical option is to use class 197. There won't be enough active travel 153s to cover the extra train as a two car let alone a four car. The 150s might cling on long enough to do the trip next year.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Once the 150s have gone, the only practical option is to use class 197. There won't be enough active travel 153s to cover the extra train as a two car let alone a four car. The 150s might cling on long enough to do the trip next year.

Probably more likely that any non-HoWL work (i.e. Crewe - Shrewsbury stoppers) would see a 197 substitution to free up an AT set

 

[Bikeman78]

Probably more likely that any non-HoWL work (i.e. Crewe - Shrewsbury stoppers) would see a 197 substitution to free up an AT set

Hardly worth running it if it's only going to be a two car. If 150s do it next year, I'd like to think that 197s will be signed off by July 2027.

 

[sd0733]

The extra today is running as AT02 and AT04 vice the 150s.

 

[Jez]

The extra today is running as AT02 and AT04 vice the 150s.

I wondered if that was the case when I checked this morning and it wasnt showing which units it was.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2025 ==

Hardly worth running it if it's only going to be a two car. If 150s do it next year, I'd like to think that 197s will be signed off by July 2027.

I agree, eventually 197s will need to be signed off for the HOWL. But probably not a huge priority at the moment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2025 ==

Probably more likely that any non-HoWL work (i.e. Crewe - Shrewsbury stoppers) would see a 197 substitution to free up an AT set

Wouldnt be surprised to see a 197 cover on Crewe stopper at some point this week to free up extra Sprinters for HOWL.

Edit - infact after checking RTT it seems a 158 is doing the Crewe stopper today!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2025 ==

A pair of 150s on the special train this morning 150251/150259. Last night the return working was terminated in Llanelli so not the best start to the week!

 

[Lewisham2221]

Worth noting that the units aren't stabled at Llandrindod during the day, as previously suggested, they run ECS to/from Swansea

 

[Mark Carter]

Worth noting that the units aren't stabled at Llandrindod during the day, as previously suggested, they run ECS to/from Swansea

It would seem they stayed there yesterday. Timings are different for yesterday and tomorrow rather than today

 

[Twingo37175]

It would seem they stayed there yesterday. Timings are different for yesterday and tomorrow rather than today

I believe the new (Bellmond?) pullman was due through today (cancelled?), possibly meaning the changes in times and also why the stock is returning empty to Swansea

 

[Jez]

Oh thats interesting that they returned ECS to Swansea today. Could we see a different unit/s on the return working?

Anyone got any information on how busy the service has been so far this week? Or the other HOWL services in general?

 

[Twingo37175]

Oh thats interesting that they returned ECS to Swansea today. Could we see a different unit/s on the return working?

Anyone got any information on how busy the service has been so far this week? Or the other HOWL services in general?

Real times trains indicates the same units for tonight

 

[Lewisham2221]

Down as AT03 and AT05 today (Wednesday)

 

[70014IronDuke]

Oh thats interesting that they returned ECS to Swansea today. Could we see a different unit/s on the return working?

Anyone got any information on how busy the service has been so far this week? Or the other HOWL services in general?

I have no idea how busy, but the service level has left something to be decided.

On Monday, something went wrong on the return, with the train caped at Llanelli.

Realtime Trains | 2V92 1815 Llandrindod to Llanelli | 21/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 2V92 1815 departure from Llandrindod to Llanelli on 21/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This morning has been something of a disaster, with the outward service leaving Cardiff 22 down. While that might not seem so awful, on the HoWL, of course, it means the service could not make it to Llandeilo to pass the southbound regular service. Hence is was stopped near Bynea for something like 44' - and arrived at Llandod 62' late.

Realtime Trains | 2M90 0659 Cardiff Central to Llandrindod | 23/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 2M90 0659 departure from Cardiff Central to Llandrindod on 23/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The knock-on effects of this late running are still taking effect on the regular service trains. Not good.

 

[Jez]

I have no idea how busy, but the service level has left something to be decided.

On Monday, something went wrong on the return, with the train caped at Llanelli.

Realtime Trains | 2V92 1815 Llandrindod to Llanelli | 21/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 2V92 1815 departure from Llandrindod to Llanelli on 21/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This morning has been something of a disaster, with the outward service leaving Cardiff 22 down. While that might not seem so awful, on the HoWL, of course, it means the service could not make it to Llandeilo to pass the southbound regular service. Hence is was stopped near Bynea for something like 44' - and arrived at Llandod 62' late.

Realtime Trains | 2M90 0659 Cardiff Central to Llandrindod | 23/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 2M90 0659 departure from Cardiff Central to Llandrindod on 23/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The knock-on effects of this late running are still taking effect on the regular service trains. Not good.

Its unfortunate this service is often a candidate for disruption. The issues with the single line does not help but it seems this mornings disaster was simply due to the unit being late from the depot to form the service. Its a shame more effort cant be made to ensure this service runs problem free given its just 4 days in an entire year.

 

[DelW]

The knock-on effects of this late running are still taking effect on the regular service trains. Not good.

The current timetable for the line has eliminated one of the possible mitigations for late running. Until last year (I think), Shrewsbury crews had route knowledge through to Llanwrtyd, as some services crossed there. Now that all services cross at Llan'dod, Shrewsbury crews can't work south of there, so must wait there for a late northbound train no matter how badly delayed it is.

I don't know how often the crossing point was switched to Llanwrtyd, probably rarely as it would only be worthwhile during significant disruption, but the current timetable eliminates even the possibility. The result is that a delay in one direction longer than the layover time automatically causes delays in the other, with little opportunity to recover the timetable through the day.

 

[Mark Carter]

So I went on it today , here is the report.
2 pairs of active travel class 153 AT03 and AT05. 20 mins late from depot and at Llanelli. Train stopped at Llangenech when the southbound class 150 was given priority so 1.04 late leaving Pontardullais. The service train was heading north was only 7 mins behind the special so that presumably had to be held at Llangenech until the special got passed Llandeilo. This meant that in effect the special collect nearly 2 services worth of passengers and on arriving at Builth Road 1.04 late was full with a few standing. Staffing there was a conductor , driver (obviously) , 2 ticket inspectors and a cleaner
The return trip with same units ran to time with almost all seats taken just driver and conductor no ticket checks

 

[Jez]

So I went on it today , here is the report.
2 pairs of active travel class 153 AT03 and AT05. 20 mins late from depot and at Llanelli. Train stopped at Llangenech when the southbound class 150 was given priority so 1.04 late leaving Pontardullais. The service train was heading north was only 7 mins behind the special so that presumably had to be held at Llangenech until the special got passed Llandeilo. This meant that in effect the special collect nearly 2 services worth of passengers and on arriving at Builth Road 1.04 late was full with a few standing. Staffing there was a conductor , driver (obviously) , 2 ticket inspectors and a cleaner
The return trip with same units ran to time with almost all seats taken just driver and conductor no ticket checks

Thank you for the report. Sounds like it was very well used which is good to hear. I really must try it one year.