Royal Train Replacement

[devonexpress]

Mods: please move if necessary.

With MK5 orders being delivered is now a good time to replace the aging royal train? If so what would be best, CAF Mk5s with a Class 68 or a IET(23m version)?

 

[Puppetfinger]

Given its (lack of) use and the changes to Royal engagements and the like, surely the future of the Royal Train is razor blades and a saving to the exchequer?

 

[hexagon789]

Given its (lack of) use and the changes to Royal engagements and the like, surely the future of the Royal Train is razor blades and a saving to the exchequer?

I think the future will be more use of service trains, in the same vein as when HM goes to Sandringham.

 

[DarloRich]

The royal train does not exist so it cant be replaced.

 

[43096]

The royal train does not exist so it cant be replaced.

So what do you call the fleet of vehicles kept at Wolverton Works that are used exclusively by the royals, then?

 

[Darandio]

So what do you call the fleet of vehicles kept at Wolverton Works that are used exclusively by the royals, then?

That's a decoy.

 

[43096]

That's a decoy.

I suppose that for use in times of crisis there are still locos suitable for hauling it in the strategic reserve kept in Box tunnel?

 

[eastdyke]

So what do you call the fleet of vehicles kept at Wolverton Works that are used exclusively by the royals, then?

Royal Razor Blades-in-Waiting?
Sorry - time for the coat .....

 

[Helvellyn]

It isn't as a rule used for day visits but retains an asset allowing a full day of engagements by letting the Queen or Prince of Wales travel to more far flung parts without having to find secure accommodation, etc. When the press loves quoting a £30k cost per trip they are never doing like for like where they factor in everything else. We're very good in this country of knowing the cost of a lot of things and ignoring the value.

As to replacing the train it isn't needed. Low use means it suffices for its purpose.

 

[WesternLancer]

Given the lead time to get a Mk5 set into use who knows where the Royal's might be by then.....

 

[Journeyman]

I've only ever seen the Royal Train once, at Cardiff when Prince Charles was visiting. It was surrounded by security staff, and had loads of carriages.

I've always felt fairly neutral towards the royals, but as I squeezed into a massively overcrowded 158 afterwards and endured a fairly hellish journey, I was full of republican sentiment.

 

[Geoff DC]

Surely it's a heritage operation for Heritage users
Mk1s or older would be fine

 

[a_c_skinner]

It might make sense as a mobile palace - sleeping accommodation for the monarch and their retinue but the monarchy seems to have places they could stay through most of the UK. Is a train cheaper than security at these places? Do many Royal visits involve overnighting? If not, or if they could stay in various houses service trains could be used for most rail visits. When HMQ goes to Sandringham is a whole carriage hypothecated? Or just some big lads in suits to separate the Royal party? At £30k an aeroplane would be cost (but not carbon) effective. Heads of State of whatever ilk cost a lot to move around. Personally I'd like a "Royal Airforce One" Airbus 330 as a studied insult to the US, but diplomacy and carbon argue against it.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

How about an HST? Plenty of them going spare. Easy to adjust the length, relatively cheap to acquire compared to new stock, cleared over most lines, etc

 

[The_Train]

If the royal train does need replacing then couple 2 or 3 Pacers together and send them that. Make sure the middle one has bench seats and that can be called the 'sleeping quarters'.

 

[Journeyman]

How about an HST? Plenty of them going spare. Easy to adjust the length, relatively cheap to acquire compared to new stock, cleared over most lines, etc

That's a bit pointless given that most current Royal Train vehicles are Mark 3s anyway.

 

[WesternLancer]

How about an HST? Plenty of them going spare. Easy to adjust the length, relatively cheap to acquire compared to new stock, cleared over most lines, etc

arent some or all of the royal carriages bullet proof / armoured - so that would need retro fitting. Cheap?

 

[WesternLancer]

It might make sense as a mobile palace - sleeping accommodation for the monarch and their retinue but the monarchy seems to have places they could stay through most of the UK. Is a train cheaper than security at these places? Do many Royal visits involve overnighting? If not, or if they could stay in various houses service trains could be used for most rail visits. When HMQ goes to Sandringham is a whole carriage hypothecated? Or just some big lads in suits to separate the Royal party? At £30k an aeroplane would be cost (but not carbon) effective. Heads of State of whatever ilk cost a lot to move around. Personally I'd like a "Royal Airforce One" Airbus 330 as a studied insult to the US, but diplomacy and carbon argue against it.

I was working in a secure building not so long ago and a royal visit (minor royals) were coming to use said place next. A fairly vast number of security police descended to sweep the building for stuff - every nook and cranny. The cost of this must have been massive. outside all the street drain covers lifted and checked then sealed shut with special anti tamper makers etc etc. I don't think the royals just rock up at a mates house when they need a place to stay. The Royal train is probably a good value option. They should use it more, costs would then be pro rata cheaper.

 

[Journeyman]

arent some or all of the royal carriages bullet proof / armoured - so that would need retro fitting. Cheap?

No. The LMS built some armoured Royal saloons in 1941, but that was for air raid protection, and the armour plating was removed after the war. Don't think any of the current vehicles have any special armour.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd imagine if it was to be replaced now CAF Mk5s would be the choice as they are already offered with a compartment layout.

 

[WesternLancer]

No. The LMS built some armoured Royal saloons in 1941, but that was for air raid protection, and the armour plating was removed after the war. Don't think any of the current vehicles have any special armour.

ah, that's what I'm muddled about.

 

[Journeyman]

ah, that's what I'm muddled about.

That said, I'm sure the current Royal train has a lot of security features we're not told about, for fairly obvious reasons.

 

[WesternLancer]

That said, I'm sure the current Royal train has a lot of security features we're not told about, for fairly obvious reasons.

wonder if it's fully PRM-TSI compliant these days?

 

[Journeyman]

wonder if it's fully PRM-TSI compliant these days?

Haha! Possibly.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm sure Sue Townsend would have used soem of the Pacer options outlined here had she thought about it in her novel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen_and_I_(novel)
No doubt Jeremy C would have done so had many more people voted for him recently!

 

[Bletchleyite]

wonder if it's fully PRM-TSI compliant these days?

Might need it as HRH gets older!

 

[Meerkat]

I am a Royalist but the Royal Train seems a bit out dated and shouldn’t be replaced.
On the modern railway how many secure places are there to park it, and pathing it must be tricky on the busy modern railway?
I am struggling to accept that sweeping occasional overnight accommodation is more expensive than securing the trains storage 24/7/365 and sweeping and securing its overnight stabling.
The helicopter (Her Maj has her own very lush one) is probably a cheaper option, but poor PR.
I wonder if the train’s decommissioning might be one of many changes that occur soon after Charlie boy takes over.
Would be an absolute gold mine for whatever museum got hold of it!

 

[a_c_skinner]

The Royals tend to sleep with the train parked, don't they? So CAF's ride may not be that important. We are of course living through a decade or so where Royal tours have been curtailed because of the monarch's age. I suppose it really depends what we want our monarch to do over and above stopping political presidential elections.

 

[WesternLancer]

I am a Royalist but the Royal Train seems a bit out dated and shouldn’t be replaced.
On the modern railway how many secure places are there to park it, and pathing it must be tricky on the busy modern railway?
I am struggling to accept that sweeping occasional overnight accommodation is more expensive than securing the trains storage 24/7/365 and sweeping and securing its overnight stabling.
The helicopter (Her Maj has her own very lush one) is probably a cheaper option, but poor PR.
I wonder if the train’s decommissioning might be one of many changes that occur soon after Charlie boy takes over.
Would be an absolute gold mine for whatever museum got hold of it!

I think Charlie boy is a very keen supporter of the train actually.

 

[Meerkat]

I think Charlie boy is a very keen supporter of the train actually.

Enough to replace it? Bearing in mind it’s low use is there anything to stop the current train lasting for decades?