Royal mail parcel dumped on doorstep

[AdamWW]

Does anyone know how to get the Royal Mail to stop dumping parcels on my front doorstep?
I don't want them in a SafePlace(TM) and this isn't a safe place anyway.

Of course when I complain they apologise and say they'll make sure it doesn't happen again. Then it does.

I'm sure it's not great delivering post these days and I can imagine the workers are under huge pressure just to get parcels dealt with but that doesn't help me if I order something expensive and it goes missing. I hope that a proof of delivery photo showing a closed door doesn't somehow make me liable for it since it's been "delivered".

 

[Peter Mugridge]

We often have issues in our road with not just Royal Mail but any couriers - the proof of delivery photos are regularly being posted on the neighbours' WhatsApp group with the request "Whose front door is this?" because they've left it at the wrong house and are claiming the photo is proof of delivery...

I think the only thing to do is continue to complain for each and every instance.

You can request they hold parcels at the local delivery office for you to collect in person, but that may of course not be very convenient for you - especially if it's one of those where they have reduced the public counter hours to a practically useless minimum.

As I understand it, under Royal Mail's rules, the posties aren't supposed to be leaving parcels on doorsteps anyway unless you have specifically told them it is OK to - so yes, do continue to make a stink about it.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Does anyone know how to get the Royal Mail to stop dumping parcels on my front doorstep?
I don't want them in a SafePlace(TM) and this isn't a safe place anyway.

Of course when I complain they apologise and say they'll make sure it doesn't happen again. Then it does.

I'm sure it's not great delivering post these days and I can imagine the workers are under huge pressure just to get parcels dealt with but that doesn't help me if I order something expensive and it goes missing. I hope that a proof of delivery photo showing a closed door doesn't somehow make me liable for it since it's been "delivered".

You can create a free account on Royal Mail's mobile app / website, where you can instruct Royal Mail and ParcelForce to take parcels to a Post Office chosen by you, for you to collect at your convenience. I do that very thing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I hope that a proof of delivery photo showing a closed door doesn't somehow make me liable for it since it's been "delivered".

They might try, but a parcel not delivered into someone's hands/through a letterbox absent explicit written (electronic written included) instructions to do otherwise has not in law been delivered, and so if it was nicked the carrier is liable (via the seller).

 

[AdamWW]

You can create a free account on Royal Mail's mobile app / website, where you can instruct Royal Mail and ParcelForce to take parcels to a Post Office chosen by you, for you to collect at your convenience. I do that very thing.

The thing is I'd like to get them when I do happen to be in when they arrive.

There used to be a system where if I was in they got delivered and if I wasn't they got taken back and I could arrange a new delivery or collect them.

That worked for me.

Now it seems to be just dump them on the doorstep if I'm not in - or even sometimes, like today, even if I am.

As I understand it, under Royal Mail's rules, the posties aren't supposed to be leaving parcels on doorsteps anyway unless you have specifically told them it is OK to - so yes, do continue to make a stink about it.

So far as I can see they aren't supposed to accept a request to dump on the doorstep:
a SafePlace should be "a secure, weatherproof area of the property that is out of sight and easily accessible for us"

And yes I'm sure they aren't supposed to be doing it. But it happens often enough that it's one of the pre-defined options for making a complaint...

I also reported this to the seller (strictly I don't think I should be dealing directly with the Royal Mail as their contract is with the seller not me) and out of curiousity asked what their policy would have been if it had disappeared before I got to it.

It will at least let me know whether to use them again or not (though I didn't have much choice on this occasion as it was something exclusive to that seller).

 

[PTR 444]

I wonder if a solution to this could be to allow Royal Mail to use delivery lockers which are widespread in most urban areas. I order most goods online through Amazon and in almost all cases have these delivered to the locker outside the supermarket at the top of my street (a 10 minute walk away). This is usually cheaper than having them delivered directly to the door, and I could definitely see more people taking up this option if it was available for Royal Mail deliveries.

 

[Flying Snail]

Parcel delivery is a service that has been priced down to it's lowest possible level and it's not going to change. You can have all the expectations you like and complain to all and sundry but it is a business that is firmly in the gutter and won't be leaving.

If you know you will be in the continue to get deliveries and use a video monitoring device so you can tell when someone is there, otherwise use parcel lockers or one of the collection services that use networks of local business as parcel points.

 

[75A]

At least it got to your door, round here DHL just throw oer a wall, even when the gates are open.
They are by far and away the worst we get.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if a solution to this could be to allow Royal Mail to use delivery lockers which are widespread in most urban areas.

You can divert to your nearest post office which in effect fulfils that, but they do have some lockers too.

 

[AdamWW]

If you know you will be in the continue to get deliveries and use a video monitoring device so you can tell when someone is there, otherwise use parcel lockers or one of the collection services that use networks of local business as parcel points.

There is a locker near me that I've used once but that was the only time it was given as a delivery option.

I wonder if a solution to this could be to allow Royal Mail to use delivery lockers which are widespread in most urban areas.

There are Royal Mail lockers, but I think nothing like as many as there are Amazon ones. I don't think I've ever been offered the option to use one anyway.

 

[londonbridge]

I ordered an item then had an email from Evri with delivery options, which included having it delivered to an Evri locker, so I selected that. Day of delivery came, I was home, no one knocked or rang the bell, phone went off with an Evri text, package delivered. Opened my front door and found it left on my doorstep.

I also had an instance with an item from Amazon, finished my work shift, checked my phone and found a message, package out for delivery. Halfway home, phone pinged with package delivered. Got home and found it on the doorstep, delivery confirmation said “package was handed to resident”, which it clearly wasn’t as no one was at home.

 

[Trackman]

I also had an instance with an item from Amazon, finished my work shift, checked my phone and found a message, package out for delivery. Halfway home, phone pinged with package delivered. Got home and found it on the doorstep, delivery confirmation said “package was handed to resident”, which it clearly wasn’t as no one was at home.

I've had issues with Amazon recently not using delivery preferences if I'm not in, they dump it on the doorstep and don't even bother hiding it - like behind a bin.

I did have an issue with Royal Mail once a while back, they left the parcel on the pavement! Luckily I saw him do this so I could collect it. Some time later I received an official letter from Royal Mail asking if I had received the parcel, I'm guessing they were under investigation plus it was around Christmas time so they could have been a temp.

 

[sor]

As a counterpoint I'm actually happy that the couriers sometimes bend the rules. I live in a block of flats where the letterbox is only useful for letters. I don't mind the parcel being left in what is technically not a safe place, but none of us are in the habit of stealing each other's parcels so it works. Then I only have to stay home for high value parcels where I have to give a PIN or show ID, such as for a mobile phone

I am more annoyed when I have left explicit instructions to leave it there and they take it back anyway. I'd be happy to use a locker if there was one anywhere near me. Inpost are everywhere but no one seems to use them these days, not even Evri. RM's nearest one is at a random Shell garage miles away and Amazon isn't much better

 

[AdamWW]

As a counterpoint I'm actually happy that the couriers sometimes bend the rules. I live in a block of flats where the letterbox is only useful for letters. I don't mind the parcel being left in what is technically not a safe place, but none of us are in the habit of stealing each other's parcels so it works. Then I only have to stay home for high value parcels where I have to give a PIN or show ID, such as for a mobile phone

I take your point but that's a bit different to dumping it on the doorstep. You might trust your neighbours not to pinch parcels but I'm afraid I don't have that confidence in everyone who happens to walk down the street.

 

[Buzby]

I provided my own DropBox adjacent to the Front Door door. Sometimes they even ignore this! There really is no ‘proper’ solution!

 

[Hadlow Road]

I now have to decline any ordering if the supplier uses Amazon for delivery. Their “delivery pin” is a property elsewhere, but they can not refuse to accept a correction from me.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The thing is I'd like to get them when I do happen to be in when they arrive.

For tracked items all you need do, when you receive Royal Mail's notification "we've got your parcel" email:
1) log in Royal Mail app / website for your account and - on dates you know you will not be in, either select a new delivery-date, or select your deluvery preference "deliver to [your chosen Post Office]".
2) Once parcel is delivered, log in again to deselect "deliver to Post Office" option.

Untracked parcels are not controlled in this way, sadly.

 

[AdamWW]

For tracked items all you need do, when you receive Royal Mail's notification "we've got your parcel" email:
1) log in Royal Mail app / website for your account and - on dates you know you will not be in, either select a new delivery-date, or select your deluvery preference "deliver to [your chosen Post Office]".
2) Once parcel is delivered, log in again to deselect "deliver to Post Office" option.

Untracked parcels are not controlled in this way, sadly.

Wouldn't have helped on this occasion.

I was in but the parcel was just dumped on the doorstep anyway.

No card through the door and I'm not in the habit of opening it when I go past to see if there happens to be anything on the doorstep so I only knew it was there when I looked at my email and saw that it had been "delivered".

 

[Towers]

Presumably the courier firms have made a business decision that the cost of replacing lost items resulting from poor delivery is outweighed by the savings made by adopting a bare minimum ‘dump and run’ approach; essentially quantity is more profitable than quality.

Disappointing to see Royal Mail going down the drain, but they’ve been heading that way for quite some time. One for the ‘Companies you expect to disappear’ thread, perhaps?!

 

[styles]

I can't comment on the other couriers, but I've worked for Royal Mail and even though I wasn't out delivering parcels, I had to sit through training on this. RM call it 'doorstepping', and it's not allowed. I watched countless training videos on why it's not allowed.

In reality, the likes of Amazon and Evri do allow it from their couriers and the public get used to it. Posties then feel empowered to do it themselves.

I think both sides are a bit extreme - never leaving it in a safe place if requested, nor leaving it on the doorstep after multiple requests not to buy the recipient.

I personally am happy for couriers to leave things outside, though they do tend to stash them rather than leave them on the doorstep, and if I'm getting anything of value delivered I change that to be something else like collect from a pickup point or deliver on a date/time I know I'll be home. DPD manage this but I suppose offering this choice, and syncing preferences down to courier PDAs in realtime etc costs money, which RM, Amazon, Evri don't want to get into.

Anyway, I would personally ask for your latest complaint to be escalated and point to the multiple complaints you've made and that it's still happening. RM can presumably add notes about specific addresses or something to communicate to posties. I've never actually been a postie but if they're handling parcels and they've got PDAs on them, I'd be surprised if there wasn't something they could do. But at the moment you're probably hitting the same local delivery manager each time and they just template reply to these things saying sorry

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I take your point but that's a bit different to dumping it on the doorstep. You might trust your neighbours not to pinch parcels but I'm afraid I don't have that confidence in everyone who happens to walk down the street.

Indeed.

We've had several instances around here in the past few years of parcel thieves actually driving around following courier vans and then nicking the parcels off the doorstep. One particularly prolific one was finally caught red handed last year after his car was spotted. There were about two dozen parcels in it when the police searched it...

 

[AdamWW]

I think both sides are a bit extreme - never leaving it in a safe place if requested, nor leaving it on the doorstep after multiple requests not to buy the recipient.

Indeed if someone specifically requests that something is left out for them and is wiling to take the risk of it being pinched then that should be fine.
And that's how the Royal Mail seems to be suggesting things work.
But it's not how they actually work.

I can't comment on the other couriers, but I've worked for Royal Mail and even though I wasn't out delivering parcels, I had to sit through training on this. RM call it 'doorstepping', and it's not allowed. I watched countless training videos on why it's not allowed

That's interesting. It would presumably be easy enough to stop this if they actually wanted - just look for "delivery" photos showing a closed door (or no door at all).

Anyway, I would personally ask for your latest complaint to be escalated and point to the multiple complaints you've made and that it's still happening.

Which is indeed what I did.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed if someone specifically requests that something is left out for them and is wiling to take the risk of it being pinched then that should be fine.
And that's how the Royal Mail seems to be suggesting things work.
But it's not how they actually work.

I find it's the parcel contractors that do this, not the actual posties. Strikes me that a sensible way to deal with it would be to put into the contract that the contractor is liable for the full compensation paid out in the event of a parcel being reported lost or stolen if it was not handed to a person at the correct address (not a neighbour) or posted through a letterbox at the correct address with photographic and GPS evidence of doing so, unless that was in line with explicit instructions from the recipient given via the Royal Mail online system that exists for doing that in which case there must be photographic and GPS evidence of having correctly followed those instructions in full.

 

[gg1]

For tracked items all you need do, when you receive Royal Mail's notification "we've got your parcel" email:
1) log in Royal Mail app / website for your account and - on dates you know you will not be in, either select a new delivery-date, or select your deluvery preference "deliver to [your chosen Post Office]".
2) Once parcel is delivered, log in again to deselect "deliver to Post Office" option.

Untracked parcels are not controlled in this way, sadly.

The re-arrange to an alternate delivery date option is very hit and miss, IME it's approximately 50/50 whether they do in fact change it or just ignore the request and deliver on the original date. Haven't tried requesting the post office option but no reason to think it'd be any more reliable.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The re-arrange to an alternate delivery date option is very hit and miss, IME it's approximately 50/50 whether they do in fact change it or just ignore the request and deliver on the original date. Haven't tried requesting the post office option but no reason to think it'd be any more reliable.

Perhaps it varies by team. I've done "leave at my nominated Post Office" on/off since mid-2017 here, without any "fail".

 

[gg1]

Perhaps it varies by team. I've done "leave at my nominated Post Office" on/off since mid-2017 here, without any "fail".

Quite possibly, I moved house twice in the space of 9 months back in 2017/18, I definitely noticed a difference in levels of service by Royal Mail at the 3 addresses.

 

[AdamWW]

Well I got a prompt reply from the seller saying they would also complain.

And saying that they would have offered a replacement if it had gone missing so long as I provided a crime reference.

I would argue that as it hadn't been delivered to me I'm not the victim of the crime - it's gone missing while still in transit.
(I wonder if there are potential household insurance implications to reporting it as a crime?)

 

[styles]

Indeed if someone specifically requests that something is left out for them and is wiling to take the risk of it being pinched then that should be fine.
And that's how the Royal Mail seems to be suggesting things work.
But it's not how they actually work.

Yeah I'm not sure what I feel the default position (as in, with no recipient preferences) should be; but once a preference has been specified it should be honoured strictly.

That's interesting. It would presumably be easy enough to stop this if they actually wanted - just look for "delivery" photos showing a closed door (or no door at all).

Well, yes, I believe so, and I believe couriers carrying parcels will have PDAs which could easily show delivery preferences. But Royal Mail is one of those environments where it's actually quite hard to get sacked, so somebody making repeated mistakes may remain in post for quite a while. I don't profess to know enough about RM to know how this doorstep process works, or indeed the disciplinary process, but I expect it would get resolved eventually, just not very quickly.

Which is indeed what I did.

Fair enough. I think I'd just keep escalating at this point. Whoever "lower down" is dealing with it clearly isn't honouring the instruction or managing the postie(s) effectively to prevent it reoccurring.

I know my postie by name, as I have for every address I've lived in since graduating over a decade ago, and always come up with informal arrangements. Most posties are trying to do the right thing. They aren't (I believe) incentivised in any way to leave parcels on doorsteps, except perhaps a lighter workload the next day on account of fewer redelivery attempts. Whoever it is probably thinks they're doing a favour.

 

[AdamWW]

Yeah I'm not sure what I feel the default position (as in, with no recipient preferences) should be; but once a preference has been specified it should be honoured strictly.

I'd argue that the best default is how it used to be - either it's actually delivered or it gets taken back.
That defaults to the lowest risk approach and does seem to be how it's suppose to work.

I know my postie by name, as I have for every address I've lived in since graduating over a decade ago, and always come up with informal arrangements. Most posties are trying to do the right thing. They aren't (I believe) incentivised in any way to leave parcels on doorsteps, except perhaps a lighter workload the next day on account of fewer redelivery attempts. Whoever it is probably thinks they're doing a favour.

Interesting. And it has always worked out so far and indeed been more convenient than if the parcel had gone back.
But that's fine up to the day I come home and find that parcel that was "delivered" isn't actually there.

And even if it's low value it might well be something second hand where the seller can't just send another one.

 

[styles]

I'd argue that the best default is how it used to be - either it's actually delivered or it gets taken back.
That defaults to the lowest risk approach and does seem to be how it's suppose to work.

If I were running a courier company, this is the approach I'd take, or require preferences at time of the delivery being arranged.

Interesting. And it has always worked out so far and indeed been more convenient than if the parcel had gone back.
But that's fine up to the day I come home and find that parcel that was "delivered" isn't actually there.

And even if it's low value it might well be something second hand where the seller can't just send another one.

Yeah when I lived in London I had many deliveries go ok, but I was in zone 2, fairly central, a lot of crime around, and one day Evri/Yodel delivery 2x£120 pairs of Levi jeans to my address in a "safe place", which was in front of my bins visible from the pavement. I obviously pursued and got my money back but it was such a ridiculous position to be in and it took time for the different parties to sort out who was liable and deliver me new pairs.

My Royal Mail postie at that address, David, knew not to do this, and so he didn't.