Rowlands Castle Near Miss - December 2020

[bramling]

Surely after phoning the wrong signaller, if the MOM the went to retrieve the item the wrong signaller must have given him the go ahead.
that suggests to me incorrect location given or the signaller is equally or greater at fault, for not picking up that the MOM wasn’t in an area he controls?

All depends on how the conversation went, and what the signaller was initially told and asked to implement.

 

[theironroad]

Surely after phoning the wrong signaller, if the MOM the went to retrieve the item the wrong signaller must have given him the go ahead.
that suggests to me incorrect location given or the signaller is equally or greater at fault, for not picking up that the MOM wasn’t in an area he controls?

Well there's only one station called Rowlands castle and the report says he pulled himself into the platform with a second to spare so he was definitely in the station. Not sure how that location can be confused. Suppose he could have named another station if he was preoccupied and thinking about something else, but I reckon he named the right place.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Please be careful discussing this in an open forum, we have no idea as to exactly what happened and you never know, those involved may be members of this forum!

Indeed.

Using this incident (or any incident) as a discussion point to prevent further incidents and learn from them is fine

Crowing over the actions and decisions of the unfortunate people involved and haranguing them for their actions from the fallacious moral high ground so many people on here insist on putting themselves on isn’t fine. Remember, it could quite easily happen to you, no matter how “good” you think you are. Holier than thou attitudes are not just irresponsible and unkind, they are dangerous.

This is why I’m not entirely convinced the RAIB publishing anything other than final reports outside the industry is a good idea. People’s lives aren’t public property, in this sphere or any other.

 

[richw]

could have named another station

That was my line of thinking

 

[Tin Rocket]

Surely after phoning the wrong signaller, if the MOM the went to retrieve the item the wrong signaller must have given him the go ahead.
that suggests to me incorrect location given or the signaller is equally or greater at fault, for not picking up that the MOM wasn’t in an area he controls?

Platforms are red zone prohibited though,no way anyone should be down there in the first place without a safe system of work in place which would be a line blockage separated green zone I suppose.
And there is no such thing as phoning up the bobby to ask for a margin or if anything is about for 5 minutes anymore,20 years ago maybe you could get away with it but not anymore,the fact he contacted the wrong bobby just compounded what was already some bad choices.

 

[theironroad]

Guess we'll all have to wait a while for the report comes out to find out what really happened.

Glad the MOM and driver are ok but I can definitely see a new 'Red' dvd on the way about comms.

 

[philthetube]

But isn't the MOM senior to the signaller, which means telling your boss off? Or have I got that wrong?

Obviously we don't know where the error was here, or the contents of the call, but in this case it does, (or should), not matter who is senior, if someone is acting in error, or against the rules anyone can say no to anyone, no matter how far up the tree they are. The rule book can be overridden, but their are procedures for that which require much more than a chat between mom and signaller.

 

[island]

In short, signallers outrank anyone when it comes to the safe running of trains.

Except the ECO, perhaps

 

[lineclear]

Except the ECO, perhaps

That's lead responsibility for comms, a different thing. Signallers are in charge of the safe running of trains, ECRO are in charge of the traction supply.

 

[Seehof]

Those of us that have worked on the railway have often seen staff jump on the track to retrieve something or to shorten a designated safe walking route. When I was learning to drive with Northern my awful minder often used to do it - thankfully he no longer works for the railway.

 

[ainsworth74]

The RAIB have now published their report into this incident. The full report can be found here but a summary is included below:

Summary​

At about 19:14 hrs on Saturday 19 December 2020, a Network Rail Mobile Operations Manager (MOM) came close to being struck by a passenger train at Rowlands Castle station. The MOM was on the track retrieving a rubbish bag when the train approached at about 60 mph (97 km/h). The MOM climbed back onto the platform and was clear of the line about one second before the train passed.

The incident occurred because the MOM had not arranged protection from train movements before going onto the track, the MOM and the signaller did not have a mutual or accurate understanding about the reality of the situation, and because the MOM was otherwise unaware that the train was approaching. Underlying these causes are factors associated with the MOM’s competence, which was not adequately managed to ensure he worked safely on the track, and local management not functioning properly, which probably affected the recruitment, training and ongoing monitoring of the MOM.

Although not causal to the incident, RAIB observed that voice communications were not recorded due to a fault with equipment at the signal box. RAIB also observed that the automatic station announcements were not providing adequate warning to passengers of non-stopping trains at Rowlands Castle.

Recommendations​

RAIB has made four recommendations and identified three learning points. Three of the recommendations are addressed to Network Rail and concern the competency framework for MOMs as well as management arrangements for operational response staff, at both local and national level. The fourth recommendation is addressed to South Western Railway and is aimed at ensuring safety-related announcements at stations are made in a timely manner. The learning points highlight the importance of processes associated with safe systems of work and safety-critical communications, as well as addressing the observation on voice communications recording.

 

[swt_passenger]

The bit about auto announcements being too late for non stopping trains is not that uncommon in my experience, presumably that’s something else that’s driven off signal berths. I’m sure I’ve been somewhere recently where passing container trains drown out their associated warning, maybe Winchester or Southampton Airport?

It could also potentially be a wider problem than just in the SWR area?

I suppose they are not really there for the reported situation, but “any port in a storm” applies…

 

[LowLevel]

The bit about auto announcements being too late for non stopping trains is not that uncommon in my experience, presumably that’s something else that’s driven off signal berths. I’m sure I’ve been somewhere recently where passing container trains drown out their associated warning, maybe Winchester or Southampton Airport?

It could also potentially be a wider problem than just in the SWR area?

I suppose they are not really there for the reported situation, but “any port in a storm” applies…

Worst is when pre-recorded announcements about crap like engineering work or using the lifts delay the passing train announcements.

 

[Horizon22]

The bit about auto announcements being too late for non stopping trains is not that uncommon in my experience, presumably that’s something else that’s driven off signal berths. I’m sure I’ve been somewhere recently where passing container trains drown out their associated warning, maybe Winchester or Southampton Airport?

It could also potentially be a wider problem than just in the SWR area?

I suppose they are not really there for the reported situation, but “any port in a storm” applies…

Probably indeed to do with the berth positioning and the equivalent line speed for the station/area. Or the CIS system has bunched it onto the end of another announcement - the automated system doesn't automatically interrupt and to my knowledge there's no 'priority' level of the system to allow that to happen. Sometimes the audio doesn't quite hit right either depending where you are on the station too. I'd say its very much an aside though compared to the root cause of the MOM's actions and competence.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

This sort of incident is probably part of the reason for the move towards staff never going on the track while trains are running. In theory it often seems perfectly safe and straightforward to put arrangements in place, but in practice misunderstandings, shortcuts etc happen far too often. In this particular case it's hard to see how things could have gone wrong but clearly they did, so we end up with a blanket rule "Don't go on the track".

 

[abn444]

The bit about auto announcements being too late for non stopping trains is not that uncommon in my experience, presumably that’s something else that’s driven off signal berths. I’m sure I’ve been somewhere recently where passing container trains drown out their associated warning, maybe Winchester or Southampton Airport?

It could also potentially be a wider problem than just in the SWR area?

I suppose they are not really there for the reported situation, but “any port in a storm” applies…

The new ATOS announcements usually announce a fast train very late whereas the old (ditra wasn't it?) Announcements usually gave a decent amount of notice, and yet most TOCs use ATOS, I can only assume it's because it's (relatively) cheap

 

[43096]

Worst is when pre-recorded announcements about crap like engineering work or using the lifts delay the passing train announcements.

Or “see it say it sorted” or wearing a face nappy or whatever the current fad is. It’s another argument for getting rid of the verbal diarrhoea and using the system as it should be.

 

[philthetube]

But isn't the MOM senior to the signaller, which means telling your boss off? Or have I got that wrong?

Assuming there was a desperate need to retrieve the bag (I'm going to take a guess at a ballast bag or something that potentially could get tangled up in shoe gear) then a line block should definitely have been requested for Rowlands castle. The curvature of the route through the station means it's a blInd approach for drivers in both directions. Sounds like this was on down and I bet the driver (and mom) were more than a bit shaken. The mom is very lucky to be alive by the sounds of it.

The MOM should have known which box to contact as Rowlands is well inside Havant's patch as Pompeyfan has mentioned. Although NOT the signalling border , Buriton tunnel through the south downs is a bit of a clue too.

It would be interesting to know the contents of the phone call between petersfield box and the MOM and just how safety critical it was. The petersfield signaller really should have picked up if the mom had mentioned Rowlands castle by name.



Might well be that, maybe the mom took the approach of box to rear , but still no excuse really for a mom.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2021 ==



I'm sure someone will correct me but I think it's the LOM who is senior, MOM is separate.

It does not matter who is senior, where safety is concerned staff should do what they consider to be safe and refuse to obey instructions they consider to be unsafe, then sort it after. The culture should be that if the staff member is wrong then it should be treated as a learning experience.

The incident was definitely on the down, abs I believe the item was a bean bag discarded by local children, which surprises me as Rowlands isn’t exactly rough.

RAIB report states that the object was a bin bag and the initial phone report was probably misheard.

The bit about auto announcements being too late for non stopping trains is not that uncommon in my experience, presumably that’s something else that’s driven off signal berths. I’m sure I’ve been somewhere recently where passing container trains drown out their associated warning, maybe Winchester or Southampton Airport?

It could also potentially be a wider problem than just in the SWR area?

I suppose they are not really there for the reported situation, but “any port in a storm” applies…

These are not safety critical and should NEVER be relied on.

 

[Horizon22]

It does not matter who is senior, where safety is concerned staff should do what they consider to be safe and refuse to obey instructions they consider to be unsafe, then sort it after. The culture should be that if the staff member is wrong then it should be treated as a learning experience.

RAIB report states that the object was a bin bag and the initial phone report was probably misheard.



These are not safety critical and should NEVER be relied on.

Also rather disappointing the voice comms weren't available post-incident as that would have no doubt shown how the quality of the communications was, although we can assume the standard was 'poor'.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2021 ==

The bit about auto announcements being too late for non stopping trains is not that uncommon in my experience, presumably that’s something else that’s driven off signal berths. I’m sure I’ve been somewhere recently where passing container trains drown out their associated warning, maybe Winchester or Southampton Airport?

It could also potentially be a wider problem than just in the SWR area?

I suppose they are not really there for the reported situation, but “any port in a storm” applies…

Its actually listed in the report that its not working as intended.

At Rowlands Castle, the trigger point is intended to be about 19 seconds before the train arrives at the station, in line with South Western Railway’s practice across its network. However, RAIB observed during its site visit that the announcement was actually made while the train was passing through the station, and consequently difficult to hear over the noise of the train.