Routing Query - London to Steeton & Silsden valid via York

[Deerfold]

Hi. My wife has a ticket London - Steeton & Silsden - Anytime single.

Her plans have changed and she needs to go from London to York. She went to the ticket office to change her ticket and was told that her ticket was not only valid tomorrow but to York with no changes.

At first that sounded unlikely, but I've had a look at the routing guide and I think it is (Maps EE +LS). I'd appeciate if anyone could confirm. Thanks.

 

[John @ home]

Hi. My wife has a ticket London - Steeton & Silsden - Anytime single.

Her plans have changed and she needs to go from London to York. She went to the ticket office to change her ticket and was told that her ticket was not only valid tomorrow but to York with no changes.

At first that sounded unlikely, but I've had a look at the routing guide and I think it is (Maps EE +LS). I'd appeciate if anyone could confirm. Thanks.

Yes - it is indeed valid via York. But I wouldn't normally make use of map combination EE+LS, which requires a deviation via Lincoln. Combination ER+LS allows the direct London - York route.

 

[Deerfold]

And to add another query. This might sound cheeky, but is probably worth checking. After reaching York would the ticket be valid via (at) Harrogate?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes - it is indeed valid via York. But I wouldn't normally make use of map combination EE+LS, which requires a deviation via Lincoln. Combination ER+LS allows the direct London - York route.

Ah yes, I think I got a little confused with all those maps. Thanks.

 

[clagmonster]

Map LS does not show any of the intermediate stations between Leeds-York, but does imply a junction with the Selby line between the two. I think what has happened is that at one stage Micklefield was marked as a specified route, but no longer is. It is open to interpretation, and I wouldn't like to say either way. The East Coast booking engine does allow journeys that way though.

 

[Deerfold]

My wife decided to play it safe and buy a York - Harrogate ticket as she didn't have time to seek advice at York station but she did ask the guard who said her original ticket would have been fine.

 

[yorkie]

My wife decided to play it safe and buy a York - Harrogate ticket as she didn't have time to seek advice at York station but she did ask the guard who said her original ticket would have been fine.

The price would have been the same had she bought on board (£6.60 for a single)...

Northern are happy to sell on board.

 

[Deerfold]

The price would have been the same had she bought on board (£6.60 for a single)...

Northern are happy to sell on board.

Although they have quite scary notices all over the trains saying it's a criminal offence to get on a train without a ticket...

 

[yorkie]

It's also an offence to get on a train before everyone has got off. So I can remain seated, wait for people to get on, then decide to get off, and they're all criminals

Anyway the law doesn't apply if tickets are available on board and/or if unavailable from the station. Most TOCs state that they will sell Anytime fares on board. Some TOCs state that they will sell discounted tickets on board. In PF areas then that law comes into play as tickets are not sold on board. In the case of Northern, the rule is that only undiscounted tickets can be bought on board if joining at a staffed station, but in reality discounted tickets are usually sold.

Also this is a potential routeing dispute, not a case of travelling without a ticket.

I believe the guard was correct, that the original ticket was valid. This was the conclusion Glynn80 reached back in January also, you can read the relevant post here (and yes I was wrong when I thought that ticket wasn't valid via Harrogate; for some reason I thought Harrogate was a RP and it is not).

 

[clagmonster]

Clause 2 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage states:
"2. Requirement to hold a ticket
Before you travel you must have a ticket or other authority to travel which is valid for the
train(s) you intend to use and for the journey you intend to make.
If you travel in a train:
(a) without a ticket; or
(b) the circumstances described in any of Conditions 10, 11, 12, 18, 19, 22,
30, 35 and 39 apply;
you will be liable to pay the full single fare or full return fare or, if appropriate, a Penalty
Fare (see Condition 4) for your journey. You will not be entitled to any discounts or special
terms unless either:..."
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

Penalty fares are not in operation on the York-Harrogate route, so that part becomes irrelevent. Therefore, as York station is staffed, assuming you travelled at a time when the booking office was open, you would only be able to buy a full fare undiscounted single or return ticket. You only wanted a single, so you would have had to purchase a full fare single ticket. However, there is only one single fare from York-Harrogate, which is a standard day single priced at £6.60, which is what the guard would have charged you, and which is what you would pay at the booking office. The only other option is prosecution for fare evasion, but if you cooperated I'm sure that wouldn't happen.