Routing Guide Map ME via Bidston?

[trainJam]

Does map ME permit travel via Bidston e.g. Birmingham to Wrexham via Shotton to Bidston to Liverpool?

Routeing Maps | data.atoc.org

Edit:
Birmingham to Liverpool.

Via
Wrexham, Shotton, Bidston

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't know about the map specifically, but I just tried to produce an itinerary for Birmingham to Wrexham via Birkenhead Hamilton Square and it was not a permitted route.

 

[trainJam]

Alright, the journey planner won't even do Shotton either.

 

[Wandering Pom]

Does map ME permit travel via Bidston e.g. Birmingham to Wrexham via Shotton to Bidston to Liverpool?

Routeing Maps | data.atoc.org

I'm confused: are you asking about travel from Birmingham to Liverpool via Wrexham, or Birmingham to Wrexham via Liverpool?

 

[Statto]

Birmingham to Liverpool tickets normally have via Crewe printed on them, meaning you can't go via Wrexham.

The only way to do Birmingham to Liverpool via Wrexham & Shotton, is through split ticketing, Birmingham to Wrexham, then Wrexham to Liverpool, i think Wrexham to Liverpool is also valid via Chester & Rock Ferry too.

 

[jfollows]

Does map ME permit travel via Bidston e.g. Birmingham to Wrexham via Shotton to Bidston to Liverpool?

Routeing Maps | data.atoc.org

Yes, map ME as one of the maps for “any permitted” tickets between Birmingham and Liverpool would permit this route, but as @Statto points out, there aren’t any “any permitted” tickets, so it’s a different reason why it’s not possible with the one ticket.
https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=BHM&dest=LIV&period=20240928 lists the tickets.

Maps CH & CP & JO+CV for Wrexham-Liverpool, CP includes Shotton/Bidston

 

[trainJam]

Ah, I should clarify I mean a ticket from a location that connects into Birmingham that is routed Any Permitted.

The routing points are Birmingham and Liverpool groups.

I would like to go via Wrexham-Bidston line.

(I won't say where the origin is in case it gets changed though.)

 

[Statto]

Ah, I should clarify I mean a ticket from a location that connects into Birmingham that is routed Any Permitted.

The routing points are Birmingham and Liverpool groups.

I would like to go via Wrexham-Bidston line.

(I won't say where the origin is in case it gets changed though.)

You would still have to buy split tickets to go via Wrexham though, i know Birmingham - Liverpool tickets do not have Any Permitted route printed on them, only via Crewe, would think it's the same type of ticket from other stations in the West Midlands area too.

 

[jfollows]

You would still have to buy split tickets to go via Wrexham though, i know Birmingham - Liverpool tickets do not have Any Permitted route printed on them, only via Crewe, would think it's the same type of ticket from other stations in the West Midlands area too.

I can find a "any permitted" ticket from a station with Birmingham as one of its routeing points, which passes the fares check, and is therefore valid using map ME to Liverpool. In deference to @trainJam I won't explicitly state the origin point. Send me a message if you can’t find it yourself.

 

[Haywain]

Send me a message if you can’t find it yourself.

How will the OP know if they have found it?

 

[MikeWM]

I hadn't noticed this before - why *are* all these tickets restricted to via Crewe? Even (for example) Birmingham -> Rock Ferry is, when surely Birmingham -> Wolverhampton -> Shrewsbury -> Chester -> Rock Ferry would be a perfectly reasonable route to expect to be able to take?

 

[jfollows]

How will the OP know if they have found it?

A ticket valid “any permitted” rather than “via Crewe”. From origin with valid routeing point Birmingham which passes the fares check.
And it wasn’t the OP I was replying to.

 

[sheff1]

I hadn't noticed this before - why *are* all these tickets restricted to via Crewe? Even (for example) Birmingham -> Rock Ferry is, when surely Birmingham -> Wolverhampton -> Shrewsbury -> Chester -> Rock Ferry would be a perfectly reasonable route to expect to be able to take?

Tickets from Birmingham to Liverpool always used to be “any permitted” and were valid via Wrexham. This was a decades old routing which links back to when there were regular direct expresses from Paddington to Birkenhead.

The route was changed to “via Crewe” on the grounds of ‘simplification’ (aka removal of flexibility). Unfortunately, there is no effective Regulator to prevent such removal of permitted routes by stealth which has happened across the country.

 

[MikeWM]

Tickets from Birmingham to Liverpool always used to be “any permitted” and were valid via Wrexham. This was a decades old routing which links back to when there were regular direct expresses from Paddington to Birkenhead.

The route was changed to “via Crewe” on the grounds of ‘simplification’ (aka removal of flexibility). Unfortunately, there is no effective Regulator to prevent such removal of permitted routes by stealth which has happened across the country.

Yes to all of that

Certainly I've gone this way before on a Cambrldge-Liverpool ticket, which last time I checked was a totally valid route. Very rubbish that people starting around the Birmingham area can no longer do so.

 

[jfollows]

Yes to all of that

Certainly I've gone this way before on a Cambrldge-Liverpool ticket, which last time I checked was a totally valid route. Very rubbish that people starting around the Birmingham area can no longer do so.

AB+ME is a valid route combination for Cambridge to Liverpool, so, yes, it’s totally valid still.
As well as EB+ME, GC+ME & RG+RB+ME if the ticket allows travel via London.

 

[Statto]

This is confusing even me now, the OP would need to check their ticket after purchase when the make the journey that it doesn't have via Crewe on it.

 

[trainJam]

Update (probably not 100% conclusive but I did make the journey - sort of):

• I asked the guard on the way to Wrexham. They said that it was fine to go via Bidston because it is 'any route'.
• The guard on the Bidston train checked the ticket and didn't ask anything
• No check on Merseyrail, but at that point I was on a ranger ticket anyways
• I did not return via Bidston (purely a preference to make things more interesting)

To confirm my ticket was 'Any permitted' and not 'via Crewe'.