Routing Edinburgh <> Inverness

[swaldman]

This week, for the first time in a year or two, I was on Scotrail services between Inverness and Edinburgh. In both directions we went via Stirling and Bridge of Allen rather than using the Forth Bridge. This seems to add 30-40 mins to the jouney time, which isn't very welcome.

When did this change? Is it a long-term change, or is there eg engineering on the usual route this week?

Thanks!
(It's also a 170 pretending to be a 5-car HST today, but that's hardly unusual...)

 

[SamCam]

I wasn't aware this service had ever gone via the Forth Bridge. It's certainly not due to engineering works. The segment Edinburgh-Perth is c. 15 minutes quicker going via Sterling than the slow service via Kirkcaldy manages, so I'm not sure how you've come to the 30-40 minutes extra figure.

Assuming it changed some time in the last few years, my guess is that they've changed to going via Sterling in order to take advantage of the higher speeds the HSTs can reach (since this is also the route the Highland Chieftain takes).

 

[hexagon789]

This week, for the first time in a year or two, I was on Scotrail services between Inverness and Edinburgh. In both directions we went via Stirling and Bridge of Allen rather than using the Forth Bridge. This seems to add 30-40 mins to the jouney time, which isn't very welcome.

When did this change? Is it a long-term change, or is there eg engineering on the usual route this week?

Thanks!
(It's also a 170 pretending to be a 5-car HST today, but that's hardly unusual...)

Has been the case since the 'Fit for the Future' timetable came in to force in May 2022. Ostensibly to offer better connections at Stirling, rather than Perth.

The deceleration isn't anything as large as 30-40 mins, generally a few mins to match up paths if even anything, 1H09 is actually 4 mins quicker for instance! Some are now slower because of alterations to paths over the HML, the 1733 is a prime example as it is booked to stop for 6 mins at Slochd and 8 at Moy, despite being officially non-stop Aviemore to Inverness, the 1939 is actually 14 mins quicker despite making all stops north of Perth.

Many of the stopping patterns of individual services have also changed, making direct comparison more difficult.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2024 ==

I wasn't aware this service had ever gone via the Forth Bridge. It's certainly not due to engineering works. The segment Edinburgh-Perth is c. 15 minutes quicker going via Sterling than the slow service via Kirkcaldy manages, so I'm not sure how you've come to the 30-40 minutes extra figure.

Assuming it changed some time in the last few years, my guess is that they've changed to going via Sterling in order to take advantage of the higher speeds the HSTs can reach (since this is also the route the Highland Chieftain takes).

The diversion of all ScotRail Edinburgh/Inverness services via Stirling was made when the 'Fit for the Future' timetable was introduced in May 2022.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2024 ==

Edinburgh and Glasgow to Inverness
In the Fit for the Future consultation, ScotRail proposed that the May 2022 timetable would provide the following:

• Ten trains per day from the Central Belt to Inverness and eleven trains per day from Inverness to the Central Belt. These services would be retimed to offer a better overall service to customers between Inverness and Perth.
• Services between Inverness and Edinburgh would operate via Stirling. This would provide Stirling with a more frequent direct service to Inverness. Passengers travelling between Inverness and Edinburgh or Glasgow would typically interchange at Stirling rather than Perth.
• Services between Inverness and the Central Belt would only call at Stirling between Glasgow or Edinburgh and Perth, with the new additional services between Glasgow and Dundee picking up local calls.

 

[SamCam]

Thanks, that all makes sense, except for the line that "Passengers travelling between Inverness and Edinburgh or Glasgow would typically interchange at Stirling rather than Perth" - surely most still choose a direct service? The biggest advantage of all Inverness services going via Sterling is that people changing to/from the Dunblane or Alloa commuter services have more flexibility, no?

It certainly seems to have streamlined things in general though.

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks, that all makes sense, except for the line that "Passengers travelling between Inverness and Edinburgh or Glasgow would typically interchange at Stirling rather than Perth" - surely most still choose a direct service? The biggest advantage of all Inverness services going via Sterling is that people changing to/from the Dunblane or Alloa commuter services have more flexibility, no?

Depends on which station you want, certainly going north, the minor stations north of Perth are only served by those originating in Edinburgh bar the first train of the day from Glasgow.

Also there are some large gaps, nothing direct to Inverness between 1507 and 1907 from Glasgow, if travelling between those times there are two options changing at Stirling.

Southbound is similar, though the stopping patterns are a bit different as more of the Glasgow services call at all or most stations north of Perth.

 

[sannox]

Thanks, that all makes sense, except for the line that "Passengers travelling between Inverness and Edinburgh or Glasgow would typically interchange at Stirling rather than Perth" - surely most still choose a direct service? The biggest advantage of all Inverness services going via Sterling is that people changing to/from the Dunblane or Alloa commuter services have more flexibility, no?

It certainly seems to have streamlined things in general though.

As mentioned by others you get gaps in the service. There is also nothing southbound from Inverness to Glasgow between 09:42 and 14:50. There are 2 trains to Edinburgh in between, both give connections at Stirling Platform 3 to trains form Aberdeen to Queen Street within 5-10 minutes. Perth is a more awkward interchange.

 

[swaldman]

Has been the case since the 'Fit for the Future' timetable came in to force in May 2022. Ostensibly to offer better connections at Stirling, rather than Perth.

The deceleration isn't anything as large as 30-40 mins, generally a few mins to match up paths if even anything, 1H09 is actually 4 mins quicker for instance! Some are now slower because of alterations to paths over the HML, the 1733 is a prime example as it is booked to stop for 6 mins at Slochd and 8 at Moy, despite being officially non-stop Aviemore to Inverness, the 1939 is actually 14 mins quicker despite making all stops north of Perth.

Thanks! And maybe I have rose tinted spectacles re how quick it used to be.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2024 ==

Thanks, that all makes sense, except for the line that "Passengers travelling between Inverness and Edinburgh or Glasgow would typically interchange at Stirling rather than Perth" - surely most still choose a direct service? The biggest advantage of all Inverness services going via Sterling is that people changing to/from the Dunblane or Alloa commuter services have more flexibility, no?

Frequently one can save an hour by changing (historically at Perth, I guess now also at Stirling). I always assumed that alternate trains down the HML went to Edinburgh and Glasgow, but it's probably more complicated - I never checked!

 

[Clansman]

Assuming it changed some time in the last few years, my guess is that they've changed to going via Sterling in order to take advantage of the higher speeds the HSTs can reach (since this is also the route the Highland Chieftain takes).

Not quite. The decision was made as it was a better use of resources given the nature of passenger demand. HSTs and 170s might have different overall speed capabilities, but on the ScotRail network they travel the same maximum speed (100mph) - so the decision to run via Stirling than via Fife would have been taken regardless of which of the two was used (which in any case they both are, along with 158s too which run 10mph slower at maximum speed).

Additionally, the route via Stirling is longer in mileage (though naturally journey times are off-set by higher line speeds than via Fife), so using it for the sake of speed capabilities of any stock adds unneccessary costs, which is not a rational decision for anyone to make when journey times are nevertheless similar.

Any journey time difference between Fife and Stirling is a matter for paths rather than line speed. A look at how the northbound Inverness sleeper performs when heading via Fife or Stirling during delays (usually non-stop from Edinburgh if no passengers are booked on until Perth) will tell you all you need to know on this. Usually around the 60 minute mark as opposed to the current 80-90 minutes in both directions with stops.

 

[hexagon789]

hanks! And maybe I have rose tinted spectacles re how quick it used to be.

The HML service has been decelerated a few times since Nat Ex days.

Back then from Winter 2000 until First took over, the fastest northbound from Edinburgh took just 3hrs 17 (another was 3h19), southbound the 0648 took just 3h10.

The first year of FirstGroup saw services decelerate with the normal tineslot from Edinburgh going from XX:40 back to XX:35 for most services.

The addition of 3 extra ScotRail services in Winter 2011, saw further slight decelerations due to more services having to pass each other and consequently wait time for this.

The 2013 timetable accelerated some services with the introduction of SP differentials, but since then gradual decelerations have set in again, May 2022 saw some particularly bad decelerations to many of the Edinburgh services due to the need to marry paths at Perth and the widespread changes to stopping patterns in both directions, also affecting paths.

Timetableworld has the Summer 2004 ScotRail timetable which makes interesting comparison with today - less services but generally faster from/to Edinburgh at least. More so given only half the ScotRail services back then were booked 170s, the other 4 were still 158s as the second batch of 'Express' 170s only began to enter service as FirstGroup took over. 158 timings were noticeably slower over certain sections, yet timings were still not excessive.