Routine overcharging in the Liverpool area ?

[sheff1]

In this thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=139036 it appears that the passenger was travelling from Lime St to Chester on a Saturday and was sold a single ticket at the booking office for £6.90. A Merseyrail Day Saver is valid all day on Saturday and costs £5.

My experience was, before the tickets were withdrawn, that ticket offices in the Greater Manchester area routinely issued the cheaper Evening tickets to passengers making just a single journey at the appropriate times and wondered whether the Chester case above was just a blip or whether many people in the Merseyside area are being charged more than Merseyrail/Merseytravel intend on a routine basis.

Either way, the obvious solution seems to be to 'grey out' fares at times when an alternative is always cheaper. Do any railway ticket issuing systems actually do this ?

 

[Merseysider]

From Chester on Merseyrail I don't believe so, as staff at the booking office are ime aware of the Merseyrail products. The machines there also have a notice on them indicating that a Saveaway/Rail Ranger may be cheaper than a through ticket.

I got the impression at Lime Street that staff would rather you buy Merseyrail tickets downstairs, and use the Virgin office for ticket collection queries, but to the best of my knowledge I've never been overcharged there.

The STM goons on the other hand have a habit of 'forgetting' to apply railcard discounts even when eligible.

 

[markindurham]

On a slightly similar line... Was booking a single ticket from Durham to Waterloo (Mersey), recently. Quoted £46-something. Hmm. Looked up Durham-Lime Street. £19-something, on the same train. Single from Central-Waterloo; less than £4. Am pretty sure Lime Street-Central isn't going to be some £20 fare...

 

[Hadders]

On a slightly similar line... Was booking a single ticket from Durham to Waterloo (Mersey), recently. Quoted £46-something. Hmm. Looked up Durham-Lime Street. £19-something, on the same train. Single from Central-Waterloo; less than £4. Am pretty sure Lime Street-Central isn't going to be some £20 fare...

I think you were comparing an Advance ticket (specific train only) between Durham and Lime Street with a flexible Anytime ticket between Durham and Waterloo.

 

[markindurham]

I think you were comparing an Advance ticket (specific train only) between Durham and Lime Street with a flexible Anytime ticket between Durham and Waterloo.

Nope - was the same time train off Durham, looking for prebooked Advance ticket, just different ultimate destination...

 

[Tetchytyke]

Nope - was the same time train off Durham, looking for prebooked Advance ticket, just different ultimate destination...

There are no Advance tickets available Durham-Waterloo (mersey), so what you were seeing was the anytime day single, priced at £67.30.

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=DHM&dest=WLO

 

[M28361M]

My experience was, before the tickets were withdrawn, that ticket offices in the Greater Manchester area routinely issued the cheaper Evening tickets to passengers making just a single journey at the appropriate times and wondered whether the Chester case above was just a blip or whether many people in the Merseyside area are being charged more than Merseyrail/Merseytravel intend on a routine basis.

In my experience the Merseyrail ticket office staff (and Arriva's staff at Chester) are clued up enough to sell the Day Saver when it is the cheapest option. The main problem is with TVMs. Merseyrail's machines can sell the Day Saver if the customer manually selects it, but don't offer it as an option if a passenger asks for a point-to-point single or return.

Example: I turn up at Southport on a Saturday afternoon, wanting to travel to Chester via Liverpool. There's a queue at the MtoGO shop so I go to the TVM. Type in CHESTER. The TVM will offer me the Anytime Day Single and Return tickets for £7.95/£8.25, but not the £5 Day Saver which is the cheapest option off-peak.

I have to "know" to choose "Any Northern or Wirral Line Station" from the frequent destinations list (or manually type in NORTHWIRRALLINES).

 

[gray1404]

In my experience the Merseyrail ticket office staff (and Arriva's staff at Chester) are clued up enough to sell the Day Saver when it is the cheapest option. The main problem is with TVMs. Merseyrail's machines can sell the Day Saver if the customer manually selects it, but don't offer it as an option if a passenger asks for a point-to-point single or return.

Example: I turn up at Southport on a Saturday afternoon, wanting to travel to Chester via Liverpool. There's a queue at the MtoGO shop so I go to the TVM. Type in CHESTER. The TVM will offer me the Anytime Day Single and Return tickets for £7.95/£8.25, but not the £5 Day Saver which is the cheapest option off-peak.

I have to "know" to choose "Any Northern or Wirral Line Station" from the frequent destinations list (or manually type in NORTHWIRRALLINES).

I totally agree. This is a problem that needs correcting. Correcting through simple selection not through putting up a sign on the tvm.

 

[markindurham]

There are no Advance tickets available Durham-Waterloo (mersey), so what you were seeing was the anytime day single, priced at £67.30.

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=DHM&dest=WLO

M'yes, but the point I was trying to make was that whilst I recognise that splitting the tickets was going to save me a large sum of money, not everyone would, and would simply accept the £67 fare...

 

[Merseysider]

M'yes, but the point I was trying to make was that whilst I recognise that splitting the tickets was going to save me a large sum of money, not everyone would, and would simply accept the £67 fare...

The onus is on the customer, not the staff, to find split tickets.

 

[najaB]

The onus is on the customer, not the staff, to find split tickets.

I believe I read in a previous thread that at some TOCs staff could get in trouble if they were to offer a split that the customer didn't request.

 

[Tetchytyke]

M'yes, but the point I was trying to make was that whilst I recognise that splitting the tickets was going to save me a large sum of money, not everyone would, and would simply accept the £67 fare...

But you need to compare apples with apples. The anytime day single from Durham to Liverpool Lime Street is also £67.30. Splitting at LIV would cost you more than buying the through ticket to Waterloo.

The issue is that not every journey in the country has an Advance fare set. It's not "overcharging", although I do agree that it is confusing. It's very different to the OP's point, which is that the TVMs are not able to issue the cheapest walk-up fare without some complicated digging in the menu.

 

[Camden]

"Routine overcharging" would seem to be a bit of a leap. Perhaps there is one staff member who hasn't got the hang of things, perhaps up in the mainline station?

Certainly whenever I've used the Merseyrail system I've always found the staff to be very knowledgeable. Over the years I've become quite familiar with the system, but even now when asking for something a bit unusual they ask me where I am going to, to make sure I get the best deal. Back in the day when I used to ask for "Travelcards" and "Zone 1", it illicited nothing more than exactly what I needed. An excess on a London Midland only train ticket also proved no bother. I've asked for returns to Chester, Southport, and received said day ticket rather than a return as a matter of course.

I think the overall ticketing system isn't great and could be clearer, but I can't fault the local knowledge of it and the way that knowledge is used.

 

[Loop & Link]

Deleted

 

[najaB]

News to me, I offer to split the ticket if the customer wants the cheapest ticket and not bothered about changes etc en route.

I think it was mentioned in connection with gWr, though it can cause problems if customers aren't adequately informed of (or more likely don't listen to) any restrictions on the tickets issued and end up on the wrong route or wrong train. I specifically remember it because the clerks at my local ticket office automatically offer splits on day returns to Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

[AlterEgo]

News to me, I offer to split the ticket if the customer wants the cheapest ticket and not bothered about changes etc en route.

Strictly speaking it is against impartial retailing rules. Hopefully you explain to the customer that they may have difficulty claiming Delay Repay with some less helpful operators, and where the split leaves the customer with a limited choice of itineraries, this is explained too.