Routes that previously had catering trolleys.

[mlambeuk]

Some Leeds to Blackpool North services had a trolley service in the early 90s.

 

[SeanG]

And into the late 90s/early 2000s as they fell under the TPE brand of Northern Spirit

 

[BrianW]

Wht do we learn here? Why are trolleys in decine, buffet cars, restaurant cars, ...? Similarly loss of Sleeper trains?
Trains are faster. There's more food outlets at stations. Onboard catering costs more than it earns- though don't forget to add in the tickets sold that might not have been. Someone decides.
I loved the smell of steam, the romance., the clackety clack of the train on the track. Times move on.

 

[takno]

Wht do we learn here? Why are trolleys in decine, buffet cars, restaurant cars, ...? Similarly loss of Sleeper trains?
Trains are faster. There's more food outlets at stations. Onboard catering costs more than it earns- though don't forget to add in the tickets sold that might not have been. Someone decides.
I loved the smell of steam, the romance., the clackety clack of the train on the track. Times move on.

With the exception of the Edinburgh-Glasgow fasts, which are about 5 minutes quicker, I don't think a single train mentioned in this thread is faster now than it was when there was a trolley on it.

 

[dk1]

Some Leeds to Blackpool North services had a trolley service in the early 90s.

Used to sell Tetley Bitter. Remember buying a few cans onboard after a visit to the Wharf pub outside Burnley Manchester Road.

 

[Helvellyn]

Onboard catering costs more than it earns- though don't forget to add in the tickets sold that might not have been. Someone decides.

Sadly, this shouldn't be overlooked but I think is by many people.

If someone working a trolley was on minimum wage, 39 hours a week, then their salary is approx £25k per year - add on employer national insurance and say 8% employer pension contribution - that adds £5k, so that employee costs the company £30k per year to employ.

In very basic terms that means the employee costs £14.65 an hour, but let us say only 80% of their time is on a train where they can make sales - they need that employee to make over £18 profit an hour just to cover their costs. The sales would obviously have to be a lot higher to cover the costs of the goods, the trolley, running a depot and supply store, management, etc. Sadly, those costs would likely mean that very high sales would be required on average - factoring in that some parts of a duty will be quiet (and thus loss making), meaning over parts need to be very busy to balance things out.

On train catering has been in decline for fifty years. It be interesting to know how LNER's Let's Eat concept (either use the buffet or have your order delivered at seat) compares against Avanti's static shop or GWR's trolley only service for volumes/cost.

 

[takno]

Sadly, this shouldn't be overlooked but I think is by many people.

If someone working a trolley was on minimum wage, 39 hours a week, then their salary is approx £25k per year - add on employer national insurance and say 8% employer pension contribution - that adds £5k, so that employee costs the company £30k per year to employ.

In very basic terms that means the employee costs £14.65 an hour, but let us say only 80% of their time is on a train where they can make sales - they need that employee to make over £18 profit an hour just to cover their costs. The sales would obviously have to be a lot higher to cover the costs of the goods, the trolley, running a depot and supply store, management, etc. Sadly, those costs would likely mean that very high sales would be required on average - factoring in that some parts of a duty will be quiet (and thus loss making), meaning over parts need to be very busy to balance things out.

On train catering has been in decline for fifty years. It be interesting to know how LNER's Let's Eat concept (either use the buffet or have your order delivered at seat) compares against Avanti's static shop or GWR's trolley only service for volumes/cost.

So essentially you need to sell about 10 teas or coffees an hour to cover the cost of the on-train staff, which isn't hugely ambitious for a lot of routes. I mean the other costs are a complete unknown, but your analysis demonstrates that the person on the train doing the selling is definitely not a blocker.

 

[SeanG]

I would like to see the introduction of vending machines for snacks and coffee on some regional routes, much like we see on the continent. These are unstaffed and whilst there will be costs in restocking them etc, they cost much less to run than a traditional shop or trolley, but offer a similar selection.

 

[Helvellyn]

So essentially you need to sell about 10 teas or coffees an hour to cover the cost of the on-train staff, which isn't hugely ambitious for a lot of routes. I mean the other costs are a complete unknown, but your analysis demonstrates that the person on the train doing the selling is definitely not a blocker.

I suspect the other costs will quickly add up. Even in the late 1980s BR was outsourcing trolley services to third party companies on Regional Railways and NSE services (I've old Rail Magazines with averts for "Cherry Tree" on the back), so the profit margins are likely slim for the overall operations. You used to see how much was piled up on some trolley services in the past and part of me wondered if it'd be better to sell a smaller range, more competitively priced.

 

[SAPhil]

Liverpool St to Hertford East definitely had a trolley service in the mid 90's - I remember buying the odd lager from them after a bad day in the office!

 

[yorksrob]

I personally feel that any trip after about an hour and a bit, people are likely to start wanting a hot drink, so perhaps those should be considered for a trolley service.