Routes/Services you think should be transferred to a different TOC

[swt_passenger]

Contentiously, Waterloo-Exeter and Salisbury-Romsey-Southampton locals to GW, with all the 159s and 158s as well as the Salisbury depot transferred. Seems a bit strange to have this diesel microservice pattern on an electric TOC, while if these went to GW, it might allow more through working, eg the Dunbridge and Dean service could run through to say Swindon as a Trans Wilts route, or some Waterloo-Exeters could continue on to say Plymouth, Paignton or Barnstaple.

Might also make it easier to run the Waterloo-Exeter fast from Honiton to Exeter Central if all run in one franchise, with the small stops running as an additional hourly Honiton-Exeter local?

Changing the responsible TOC won’t magically upgrade the infrastructure on the West of England line, on the other hand through running Southampton to Swindon could be done now by SWR, if they just had a couple of extra 158s. In neither case is the responsible TOC the deciding factor.

 

[Chiltern006]

could Kings lynn-cambridge be transferred to GN, and combined with the fast Cambridge off LST? and then GN Moorgate lines get given to LO? the stations between Stevenage and Cambridge are all (give or take) served by Thameslink?

 

[30907]

could Kings lynn-cambridge be transferred to GN, and combined with the fast Cambridge off LST?

I presume you mean GA, but what fast Cambridge off LST do you mean?

 

[Chiltern006]

sorry should've said the semi-fast one, the one that skips the smaller stns north of cheshunt

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2021 ==

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G42174/2021-08-16/detailed

ie this

 

[Ianno87]

could Kings lynn-cambridge be transferred to GN, and combined with the fast Cambridge off LST? and then GN Moorgate lines get given to LO? the stations between Stevenage and Cambridge are all (give or take) served by Thameslink?

My idea is the opposite - transfer King's Lynn-King's Cross to Greater Anglia.

As it stands "Great Northern" is a delightfully odd collection of not particularly related services. Fast King's Cross services plus "inner" services to Moorgate.

 

[Purple Orange]

All routes & services should transfer to GBR.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

sorry should've said the semi-fast one, the one that skips the smaller stns north of cheshunt

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2021 ==

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G42174/2021-08-16/detailed

ie this

The service shown takes 1hr 20m to get from London to Cambridge instead of a fraction of 45 minutes from King’s Cross. I don’t think the good folk of the Fen Line would appreciate such a wapping journey time increase!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

There will surely, soon, be a case for Liverpool - Cleethorpes and Liverpool - Nottingham to be EMR.

- EMR crew depot at Liverpool
- Standardised unit types (e.g. some 185s, and maintained at Ardwick on the route)
- Existing Nottingham depot
- Sensible transfer of Cleethorpes drivers and crew to EMR who can also do Barton (again)
- Standardised one-TOC half-hourly inter-regional ‘express’ between Liverpool and Sheffield
- Cleethorpes etc are in the East Mids anyway
- Option of course of also using the Sheffield driver depot that TPE have and then doing all of that
- Oh, and the Leeds - Nottingham could and should also be EMR, again using a mix of Sheffield and Nottingham drivers and whatever unit type is used on the Liverpool - Clee and Notts stuff

 

[geoffk]

Sheffield - Lincoln from Northern to EMR. Northern has still not reinstated the Sheffield - Gainsborough Central service except at peak times nor the speeded-up Lincoln trains missing out the smaller stations. In fact, did these even start? All other regional services to Lincoln are run by EMR and a later train from Sheffield would be possible than the current last train at 20.53 as stock would be based at the Lincoln end of the route.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Sheffield - Lincoln from Northern to EMR. Northern has still not reinstated the Sheffield - Gainsborough Central service except at peak times nor the speeded-up Lincoln trains missing out the smaller stations. In fact, did these even start? All other regional services to Lincoln are run by EMR and a later train from Sheffield would be possible than the current last train at 20.53 as stock would be based at the Lincoln end of the route.

Well that’s potentially a good shout, yes. As I said in a prior comment about Cleethorpes and Nottingham - Liverpool, it lends itself nicely. Cleethorpes - Sheffield via Brigg also EMR, same for Sheffield - Lincoln (and Donny - Lincoln - Posh).

 

[Neptune]

All routes & services should transfer to GBR.

I think looking at this thread the fact that GBR is coming soon has bypassed many people.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I think looking at this thread the fact that GBR is coming soon has bypassed many people.

GBR is still going to franchise out ‘TOCs’ in the same way as Overground does.

Also note some of the bridging National Rail Contracts which have been awarded are for quite long durations.

 

[Neptune]

GBR is still going to franchise out ‘TOCs’ in the same way as Overground does.

Also note some of the bridging National Rail Contracts which have been awarded are for quite long durations.

But those contracts will not necessarily be the same shape as now. Nothing has been confirmed about that yet.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

But those contracts will not necessarily be the same shape as now. Nothing has been confirmed about that yet.

The Bridging NRCs have been and some of these last for several years.

 

[leytongabriel]

If it was cut back to Watford Junction at one end and Clapham Junction at the other London Overground would be the right operator - as posted before there are already four slow services north of Watford Junction an hour (2 Tring, 1 Milton Keynes, 1 Northampton) which is perfectly adequate provision and fits the one operator principle.

London Overground even have six surplus 5-car 710s that could operate the cut back service on the basis they aren't needed for an increase in service on the routes they were procured for. The released 377s would be good for (part of) 455 replacement.

Is anyone complaining about it not running at the moment?

Doesn't London Overground have a 4 trains per hour minimum and all stations policy (Romford-Upminster excepted). Tfl Rail perhaps?

 

[JonathanH]

Doesn't London Overground have a 4 trains per hour minimum and all stations policy (Romford-Upminster excepted). Tfl Rail perhaps?

There aren't 4tph at Enfield Town or Southbury. They run the service they can within the infrastructure possibilities.

 

[leytongabriel]

There aren't 4tph at Enfield Town or Southbury. They run the service they can within the infrastructure possibilities.

There are 4 trains per hour up the main axis through Seven Sisters and Edmonton Green before the branches split. Not me who is saying this, butTfL

 

[JonathanH]

There are 4 trains per hour up the main axis through Seven Sisters and Edmonton Green before the branches split. Not me who is saying this, butTfL

There would be more than 4tph between Clapham Junction and Shepherds Bush and between Wembley Central and Watford Junction too. It would just be the direct link between Shepherds Bush and Wembley Central where there would be a less frequent service.

 

[bramling]

My idea is the opposite - transfer King's Lynn-King's Cross to Greater Anglia.

As it stands "Great Northern" is a delightfully odd collection of not particularly related services. Fast King's Cross services plus "inner" services to Moorgate.

Whilst GN might be odd as a passenger-facing brand, as part of wider GTR it makes reasonable sense operationally.

From an operational point of view it seems inefficient to change. In any case, I’m sure I heard somewhere that GA north of Cambridge might well be a thing of the past before too long, or has that been quietly shelved?

As an aside, the whole “Great Northern” brand is something of an accident of history, and I suspect it means little to the average commuter, and indeed causes issues when people get it confused with Northern. But what else do you call it? The area served is rather nondescript.