Routemaster coaches

[341o2]

Mod note: discussion split from this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/bus-speeds.253093/ as it was off-topic.

Routemaster coaches could reach 70mph, which would be illegal today. The BEA coaches and the RCL's had AEC AV690 11.3l engines rated at 175hp and geared for 70mph running, especially as the BEA service used the M4

 

[hexagon789]

Routemaster coaches could reach 70mph, which would be illegal today. The BEA coaches and the RCL's had AEC AV690 11.3l engines rated at 175hp and geared for 70mph running, especially as the BEA service used the M4

Midland Red launched their improved express Birmingham / London (via Motorway) coach service in November 1959 with modified BMMO C5s (uprated 138bhp engine, 5-speed gearbox etc), officially geared for 76mph (and clocked at 85mph in tests).

Journey time was a relatively conservative 3h25 (but still some 2 hours faster than previously) but 2h45 was often achieved by eager drivers.

 

[greyman42]

Routemaster coaches could reach 70mph, which would be illegal today. The BEA coaches and the RCL's had AEC AV690 11.3l engines rated at 175hp and geared for 70mph running, especially as the BEA service used the M4

Has anyone got a photo of a Routemaster coach? I searched it but only got double deckers.

 

[PeterC]

Has anyone got a photo of a Routemaster coach? I searched it but only got double deckers.

They are double decker, types RMC and RCL. The only external differences are the doors and, originally the Green Line branding.

 

[DustyBin]

They are double decker, types RMC and RCL. The only external differences are the doors and, originally the Green Line branding.

And arguably they're not really coaches (as nice as they are!).

 

[greyman42]

And arguably they're not really coaches (as nice as they are!).

That what threw me.

 

[Strathclyder]

And arguably they're not really coaches (as nice as they are!).

Something resembling dual purpose-spec (as we would know it today) would probably be the most appropriate label for them, a halfway house between a standard bus and a coach.

 

[busesrusuk]

Has anyone got a photo of a Routemaster coach? I searched it but only got double deckers.

here you go:

Preserved BEA 2 Mar23

Route 174/5 running day, Mar 2023

www.flickr.com

London Coaches RCL2250

Victoria

www.flickr.com

 

[Enthusiast]

They are double decker, types RMC and RCL. The only external differences are the doors and, originally the Green Line branding.

And twin headlamps.

 

[busesrusuk]

And twin headlamps.

Add to that deeper seat cushions with less seats all round for extra room, luggage racks and powered platform doors to...

 

[Roger1973]

Yes - Green Line 'coaches' were not really 'coach' seated until the late 60s / early 70s when 'dual purpose' single deckers with high backed seats started to appear (the early 70s brought bus seated Leyland Nationals, the mid to late 70s brought proper 'dual purpose' AEC Reliance coaches.)

The 'coach' RF's were similar in having thicker seat cushions than the bus version but they were still 'bus' seat style without head rests. The Green Line RTs were broadly to the same specification as buses, albeit they got saloon heaters before the bus versions did, and the back axle ratios were set up for slightly faster running.

an RMC 'coach' when almost new (photo in LT Museum collection) here

Interior view of RCL 'coach' (also LT Museum collection) lower deck here and upper deck (note the ash trays) here.

 

[Kernow Dave]

Midland Red launched their improved express Birmingham / London (via Motorway) coach service in November 1959 with modified BMMO C5s (uprated 138bhp engine, 5-speed gearbox etc), officially geared for 76mph (and clocked at 85mph in tests).

Journey time was a relatively conservative 3h25 (but still some 2 hours faster than previously) but 2h45 was often achieved by eager drivers.

I remember them many times sitting in the outside lane of the M1 and not a lot getting near them. In fact they would rock the car in the second lane as they went past. Bear in mind the average car of the day wouldn't easily reach 70mph. I was an awesome sight to behold.

 

[GusB]

I remember them many times sitting in the outside lane of the M1 and not a lot getting near them. In fact they would rock the car in the second lane as they went past. Bear in mind the average car of the day wouldn't easily reach 70mph. I was an awesome sight to behold.

They're not Routemasters, though - that's the topic of the thread.

 

[PeterC]

Add to that deeper seat cushions with less seats all round for extra room, luggage racks and powered platform doors to...

I did say "external differences"

 

[341o2]

And arguably they're not really coaches (as nice as they are!).

London Transport introduced them as coaches, that's good enough for me.

 

[Busaholic]

The last of the four Routemaster prototypes was numbered CRL4 by London Transport (Coach Routemaster Leyland) when it entered service in 1957 in Green Line livery with the Country Bus Department, originally from Reigate on the 711. It remained unique among Routemasters in being bodied by Eastern Coach Works of Lowestoft, and had a Leyland engine like the third prototype, RML3. Later on, it was renumbered RMC4, and had a reasonably full life, both as a coach then a bus, mostly based at Hatfield. It had two single headlights and standard Routemaster bus blind boxes i.e. a separate route number blind at the front and a stylish grille and bonnet assembly that got replaced by the time the first standard Routemasters came off the production line. The registration number was SLT59 (RM1's being SLT56) and almost everyone at L.T. regarded it as a coach, and some even believed it would transform Green Line into a thriving, profitable coach company as an adjunct to the declining, unprofitable Home Counties green bus services. Unfortunately, growing prosperity and the explosion in car sales that brought about in the end doomed it, with staff shortages getting added to the mix and even the lovers of Green Line travel had to give up on it if they had paid employment to go to or a long wait at a stop without shelter against wind and rain.

 

[DustyBin]

The last of the four Routemaster prototypes was numbered CRL4 by London Transport (Coach Routemaster Leyland) when it entered service in 1957 in Green Line livery with the Country Bus Department, originally from Reigate on the 711. It remained unique among Routemasters in being bodied by Eastern Coach Works of Lowestoft, and had a Leyland engine like the third prototype, RML3. Later on, it was renumbered RMC4, and had a reasonably full life, both as a coach then a bus, mostly based at Hatfield. It had two single headlights and standard Routemaster bus blind boxes i.e. a separate route number blind at the front and a stylish grille and bonnet assembly that got replaced by the time the first standard Routemasters came off the production line. The registration number was SLT59 (RM1's being SLT56) and almost everyone at L.T. regarded it as a coach, and some even believed it would transform Green Line into a thriving, profitable coach company as an adjunct to the declining, unprofitable Home Counties green bus services. Unfortunately, growing prosperity and the explosion in car sales that brought about in the end doomed it, with staff shortages getting added to the mix and even the lovers of Green Line travel had to give up on it if they had paid employment to go to or a long wait at a stop without shelter against wind and rain.

I forgot it was bodied by ECW.... I last saw it in 2019; next time I'll take more notice as I presume there are some giveaway ECW features?

 

[GusB]

I forgot it was bodied by ECW.... I last saw it in 2019; next time I'll take more notice as I presume there are some giveaway ECW features?

Photo link here:

London Transport, SLT 59 (CRL4)

London Transport prototype Routemaser coach SLT 59 (CRL4) parked by the village green at Toot Hill having arrived on a photographers special. Sun 24.02.2019.

www.flickr.com

I don't think there's anything ECW-ish about it, really. Apart from the grille area, it looks more or less like a normal Routemaster.

 

[DustyBin]

Photo link here:

London Transport, SLT 59 (CRL4)

London Transport prototype Routemaser coach SLT 59 (CRL4) parked by the village green at Toot Hill having arrived on a photographers special. Sun 24.02.2019.

www.flickr.com

I don't think there's anything ECW-ish about it, really. Apart from the grille area, it looks more or less like a normal Routemaster.

I agree, but there may be some giveaways on closer inspection.

 

[341o2]

The first four prototypes received many modifications between 1956 (when RM1 entered service) and 1959 when RM8 (the first production Routemaster) entered service.
Photograph of RM1 newly introduced on route 2, from London Bus Museum website, photographer unknownAlso, it was reckoned that the top speed of a standard RM was in the region of 45MPH

 

[busesrusuk]

I did say "external differences"

I didn't realise we were just referring to external differences; one other notable external difference were the blind box arrangements. The separate number and intermediate via point boxes of the standard RM gave way to a combined number and via blind box as seen many years later on the Metrobuses and Titans.

 

[Busaholic]

I'd forgotten that CRL4 was actually the third RM prototype to appear, beating RML3. RM8, not 5, was the first production Routemaster and was the only one completed in 1958. I remember its eventual entry into passenger service at Sidcup garage in 1976, a little tardy even by LT standards. It was Sidcup's pride and joy and a showbus to end all showbuses, though Croydon with RM 1000 might have disagreed!

 

[busesrusuk]

I'd forgotten that CRL4 was actually the third RM prototype to appear, beating RML3. RM8, not 5, was the first production Routemaster and was the only one completed in 1958. I remember its eventual entry into passenger service at Sidcup garage in 1976, a little tardy even by LT standards. It was Sidcup's pride and joy and a showbus to end all showbuses, though Croydon with RM 1000 might have disagreed!

Personally RM8 looked very nice in its psuedo 1933 livery but the apprentices at Croydon did a very nice job of RM1000. Many thought Mortlake's RM1563 was the best of the lot:

LT RM1000

Euston Bus Station

www.flickr.com

LT RM8 Apr83

Spring gathering Cobham, April 1983

www.flickr.com

 

[Busaholic]

Personally RM8 looked very nice in its psuedo 1933 livery but the apprentices at Croydon did a very nice job of RM1000. Many thought Mortlake's RM1563 was the best of the lot:

LT RM1000

Euston Bus Station

www.flickr.com

LT RM8 Apr83

Spring gathering Cobham, April 1983

www.flickr.com

I couldn't remember the details of Mortlake's bus but, in general, their buses had more attention to detail paid by engineering staff than anywhere else. Of course, it helped that they weren't allocated any of the more modern, problematic buses like DMSs.

 

[Spamcan81]

They are double decker, types RMC and RCL. The only external differences are the doors and, originally the Green Line branding.

And the twin headlights.

 

[lloyd.penfold@]

Midland Red launched their improved express Birmingham / London (via Motorway) coach service in November 1959 with modified BMMO C5s (uprated 138bhp engine, 5-speed gearbox etc), officially geared for 76mph (and clocked at 85mph in tests).

Journey time was a relatively conservative 3h25 (but still some 2 hours faster than previously) but 2h45 was often achieved by eager drivers.

I used to drive the later CM6Ts in service, 90 mph was possible on most of the level & downhill stretches and under 3 hours was possible (with M1 to the North Circular and the M6 to Birmingham city centre).

 

[Busaholic]

Not sure it's been mentioned before, but the blind boxes differed between RMC and RCL coaches too, with the RCLs displaying larger numbers. The original coach CRL4 had ordinary bus blind boxes with a separate number box at the front.

 

[Roger1973]

Not sure it's been mentioned before, but the blind boxes differed between RMC and RCL coaches too, with the RCLs displaying larger numbers. The original coach CRL4 had ordinary bus blind boxes with a separate number box at the front.

Yes - the RCL's had a full width number / via point blind, the same width as the ultimate destination (the style later used on Titan and Metrobus and subsequent types), RMC front blinds were the same width as the rear / side number / via point blind.

This photo (on Flickr, not my photo or account) demonstrates - an RCL carrying a blind from an RMC, presume this was a short term loan or unexpected transfer.

Although think I've seen a photo of an RMC that got a RCL style blind box (and possibly other bodywork features) - can't remember if this was at overhaul as a pilot for the RCL's. Or was it rebuilt after an accident or something?