Routeing guide and cross-London transfers

[arb]

At some point over the Christmas holiday I need to make a day return journey from Cambridge to Carshalton Beeches. The obvious ticket to make this journey is the off-peak day return in the week (£17.80), or super off-peak day return at weekends (£11.90), assuming off-peak travel, a network railcard, and 2014 prices. Since I won't be in any hurry when actually making the journey, I was wondering how far off the direct route I'd be allowed to go with this ticket, in order to add in a break of journey somewhere yet to be determined so that I can also visit a random part (or parts) of London as well (and without buying a more expensive Cambridge travelcard - even though that would probably be a lot simpler!)

Playing around with National Rail Enquiries suggests that the following is the furthest east I could travel:
* Cambridge to Finsbury Park
* Finsbury Park to Highbury and Islington (tube)
* Highbury and Islington to West Croydon (London Overground)
* West Croydon to Carshalton Beeches (Southern)

or the furthest west would be:
* Cambridge to Kings Cross
* Kings Cross to Vauxhall (tube)
* Vauxhall to Wimbledon (South Western)
* Wimbledon to Sutton (Thameslink)
* Sutton to Carshalton Beeches (Southern)

My immediate questions relate to the break of journey rules for crossing London. I'm aware that if I break the journey whilst doing the cross-London transfer, then I need to get another ticket to get me to the first station that's not part of the cross-London transfer. All the wording that I can find relating to cross-London transfers says that they relate to the parts of the journey by tube and/or Thameslink. So how does this apply to either of the above routes?

1) Taking the eastern route, is it correct to say that the cross-London transfer is strictly tube/Thameslink? And that London Overground is not part of the cross-London transfer? And that therefore I only have restricted break of journey options between Finsbury Park and Highbury & Islington? And I can break and resume the journey anywhere I want on London Overground between Highbury & Islington and West Croydon without needing an additional ticket to resume the journey?

2) Taking the western route, I seem to have three "normal" train journeys, interspersed with two "cross-London" parts (the Kings Cross to Vauxhall tube, and the Wimbledon to Sutton Thameslink). Which part of the journey actually counts as "cross-London" with regards to breaking/resuming the journey? Is it just one of the tube or Thameslink sections (and if so, which one)? Is it both of the tube and Thameslink sections? Or does it also include the train journey between Vauxhall and Wimbledon that links the two "cross-London" parts? Could I break and resume the journey at, for example, Earlsfield? If I do break the journey somewhere on the tube or Thameslink sections, at what point does my original ticket become valid again, and how far along the journey would I have to purchase a additional ticket to?


I attempted to use the routeing guide to understand which parts of the journey count as normal train journeys, and which parts are "cross-London", but became even more confused! As a more general question, can anybody explain how the routeing guide works for cross-London transfers?

For my journey, Cambridge is a routeing point, and Carshalton Beeches allows either Croydon Group or Sutton to be used as routeing points.

The western route seems straightforward, using Sutton as the routeing point, I can use map KE from Cambridge to London Group (Kings Cross), then cross-London transfer (Kings Cross to Vauxhall), then maps SU+SD to travel from Vauxhall via Wimbledon to Sutton. This would imply that just the tube, and not the Thameslink part of the journey, counts as the cross-London transfer. Correct, or not?

Considering the eastern route, using Croydon Group as the routeing point, I can use map KE for Cambridge to London, and map LB seems to be the relevant one for my proposed London to Croydon route. I can "leave" map KE at Finsbury Park to start the cross-London transfer, and then I join map LB at New Cross Gate. Which suggests that the cross London transfer is actually the tube journey from Finsbury Park to Highbury & Islington, and half the London Overground journey (from Highbury & Islington as far as New Cross Gate). Which is confusing enough in itself, but then even more confusing because New Cross Gate isn't listed as somewhere I can start/end a cross-London transfer at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46587.aspx#travelling_connect!

This is sort of suggesting that when making a cross-London transfer, I'm allowed to "leave" a map in the routeing guide before I reach the London Group station. Is that correct? Can I then end the cross-London transfer anywhere I want to rejoin a map? Does it have to be somewhere listed on the above link, or can it be any routeing point shown a map? Had I not done the searches on National Rail Enquiries first, the map combination of KE and LB would be intuitively suggesting to me that I should travel all the way from Cambridge to the London Group (i.e. Kings Cross) before starting the cross-London transfer (which would be the tube from Kings Cross to London Bridge), and then I'd have to travel all the way from London Group (i.e. London Bridge) via New Cross Gate to Sutton. I would never have thought that the cross-London transfer is allowed to avoid the main terminal stations in "London Group".

 

[yorkie]

You can break your journey anywhere, but if you do so while on a cross-London transfer by LU, then you'll need to pay if you wish to resume on LU.

A cross London transfer is valid for any reasonable route, appropriate to the journey being made, and there is a list of stations where you may start/finish a cross-London transfer.

See 7.3.1 Cross-London transfer
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1315636

 

[OwlMan]

From Section C of the Routeing Guide you can use the folowing routes

Cambridge - Croydon Group
LONDON or KG+EL

Cambridge - Sutton
LONDON

If you use the London routeings you can use any route Cambridge - London
and then any route for London - Sutton/Croydon.

From Cambrige to London you can use map KE or Map WA

From London to Croydon you can use map LB or map TN
From London to Sutton you can use map HR or LB+SD or SU+SD.

You can use either LU or the Thameslink tunnel to connect between the maps to London & From London (that is your London Connection).
Depending on your route you could catch LU from Finsbury Park, Tottenham Hale, Stratford, Kings X or Liverpool Street and alight, again depending on your route at Balham, Elephant & Castle, Vauxhall, London Bridge, Charing X (or Embankment), Cannon Street, Waterloo (or Southwark), Blackfriars, Victoria or Wimbledon.
You could also use the Thameslink from St Pancras to either London Bridge or Elephant & Castle.

Alternatively you can avoid London routeing group and use maps KE+EL

Peter

 

[arb]

You can break your journey anywhere, but if you do so while on a cross-London transfer by LU, then you'll need to pay if you wish to resume on LU.

Ah, thanks, I'd missed that the extra payment was strictly only for breaking the journey on the tube, and not other forms of cross-London transfer.

Cambridge - Croydon Group
LONDON or KG+EL

And I'd also managed to miss the KG+EL option, probably through having become fixated on the routes via LONDON due to the whole cross-London transfer issue. How the London Overground route fits into the bigger picture, and how it (doesn't!) relate to cross-London transfers now makes a lot more sense!

 

[maniacmartin]

If you take London Overground, that is not a cross-London transfer.

 

[Hadders]

The 'more expensive' Cambridge Travecard is £20.40 or £14.50 depending on whether you travel on a weekday or weekend. £2.60 for the additional validity is you intend to 'travel around' en-route is well worth it, imo.

In fact, on a weekday if you take Greater Anglia to/fro Cambridge then a one day travelcard is actually cheaper than the through are at £16.35 (or even £15.50 if the timings of the super off-peak travelcard suit)

 

[arb]

The 'more expensive' Cambridge Travecard is £20.40 or £14.50 depending on whether you travel on a weekday or weekend. £2.60 for the additional validity is you intend to 'travel around' en-route is well worth it, imo.

It's not really the case that I'm *intending* to travel around - it really just is wanting to find something else to do (and not a typical central London tourist attraction) along the route of the journey I'm planning anyway. Artificially limiting where I can go by not buying a travelcard makes the choice a bit easier.

In fact, on a weekday if you take Greater Anglia to/fro Cambridge then a one day travelcard is actually cheaper than the through are at £16.35 (or even £15.50 if the timings of the super off-peak travelcard suit)

But that might make the choice harder again! I normally only go to London at weekends, where the price of the any permitted tickets were lowered a couple of years or so ago to match/beat the Greater Anglia only tickets. Therefore as a general rule I'd stopped looking at Greater Anglia only tickets - thanks for pointing out they're still cheaper in the week.