Routeing Dilemma

[errata]

I travelled to Liverpool from London three days ago on an SVR outbound and I intend to travel the return via Luton Airport Parkway, go away for a twenty day holiday then complete the journey LTN > St Pancras on the final day of the SVR's validity.

I understand that BOJ is permitted on said return journey. However, the routeing is a sticky issue for me. Luton Airport Parkway is a total pain to get to from any direction apart from London, unless you travel on the Midland Main Line.

I do not want to travel via London, chiefly because I would like to use the ticket to complete its validity on the LTN to STP leg after I return from my holiday, to save buying a new ticket. I also understand that the Virgin link between MKC and Luton Airport no longer operates -- and although there is another service, I would prefer to use this ticket and travel solely by train.

I have a YP Railcard and will be travelling weekday off-peak (arrival around 1500). The length (time) of the journey is not a major issue for me.

I "tweeted" Virgin and received a rather confusing response about an SVR being valid via Tamworth and Nottingham (seems like a bit of a diversion!) but only as a full-fare ticket.

What are my options? Can I take LIV>CRE>DBY>LTN or LIV>NOT>LTN? Any other routes?

I have tried my best to answer my own question and have been searching through Avantix Traveller (NFM08 is the only version I have). If this is not too outdated, I understand that restriction 9I applies to my ticket, which does cite travel to LTN in the restriction notes.

Finally, if you were to be undertaking this journey and regardless of the ticket that I have, what route would you advise taking, LIV to LTN, avoiding London? Time is not an issue!

Thank for reading and helping me out.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I can't see how a ticket Between Liverpool and London is valid via Luton Airport Parkway tbh.

The Routeing Guide shows maps CS (Marylebone, Paddington), CS+CC (Marylebone, Paddington), GC+CC (Marylebone), LC+ML (Euston), LC (Euston), LC+CH (Euston), MA+ML (Euston), MA+NL (Euston) and TV+ME (Euston).

If, however, I were going to attempt the journey, with the intent of stopping off at Luton Airport Parkway, I would try either LIV-SHF-LTN or LIV-NOT-LTN.

 

[calc7]

If you had bought the ticket from Manchester Stns to London Terminals, it would be valid both via Liverpool Stns and down the MML to Luton.

 

[MCR247]

If you had bought the ticket from Manchester Stns to London Terminals, it would be valid both via Liverpool Stns and down the MML to Luton.

Wouldn't via Liverpool involving doubling back?

 

[calc7]

Wouldn't via Liverpool involving doubling back?

30186 Customers travelling via Liverpool South Parkway may doubleback via Liverpool Lime Street. This easement applies in both directions.

 

[errata]

If you had bought the ticket from Manchester Stns to London Terminals, it would be valid both via Liverpool Stns and down the MML to Luton.

Wish I'd known this one before! It's the same price too! Thanks

If, however, I were going to attempt the journey, with the intent of stopping off at Luton Airport Parkway, I would try either LIV-SHF-LTN or LIV-NOT-LTN.

Thanks. I think I'll go for one of these, and either try and zero excess the SVR to MAN, or procure a new set of advance fare tickets to LTN.

Wouldn't via Liverpool involving doubling back?

Having said that, not all services to MAN travel via LPY. Services also go east via NLE, albeit passing through Edge Hill before leaving the WCML.

 

[yorkie]

... try and zero excess ....

Good luck! Allow yourself plenty of time to 'shop around' to find someone willing to issue it!

 

[calc7]

Good luck! Allow yourself plenty of time to 'shop around' to find someone willing to issue it!

I would be confident that London Euston will issue it, but they do have a few staunch clerks!
Though I've noted that he's already in Liverpool - my experience with their booking office is limited.

 

[34D]

I can't see how a ticket Between Liverpool and London is valid via Luton Airport Parkway tbh.

The Routeing Guide shows maps CS (Marylebone, Paddington), CS+CC (Marylebone, Paddington), GC+CC (Marylebone), LC+ML (Euston), LC (Euston), LC+CH (Euston), MA+ML (Euston), MA+NL (Euston) and TV+ME (Euston).

If, however, I were going to attempt the journey, with the intent of stopping off at Luton Airport Parkway, I would try either LIV-SHF-LTN or LIV-NOT-LTN.

Think this is good advice. This is one of those routes which appears not to be explicitly permitted, but sounds 'reasonable'. If I were a betting man, I would expect that guards may well accept it - though it may be prudent to avoid FCC.

Do any websites give itineries via MML?

 

[Paul Kelly]

I would be confident that London Euston will issue it, but they do have a few staunch clerks!
Though I've noted that he's already in Liverpool - my experience with their booking office is limited.

I've had a zero-excess (overdistance) issued no problems at all at the (Northern-run, as far as I could see) main booking office at Liverpool Lime St, once I'd explained clearly what I wanted. The clerk at the Merseyrail booking office downstairs tried to do it, but didn't seem to understand the concept of a zero excess (kept saying "it's not giving me a fare for it"...)

 

[34D]

The 99 (milton keynes to Luton) bus still runs http://www.stagecoachbus.com/timetables.aspx?serviceid=&locationId=0&from=luton%20airport&to=milton%20keynes

Origin0435 LIVERPOOL STNS
DestinationK042 LUTON AIRBUS MK is £66 return

Whether any through rail tickets are valid on it, is another matter (I mean here Wolverton or points north thereof to Harpenden or points south thereof).

 

[errata]

Good luck! Allow yourself plenty of time to 'shop around' to find someone willing to issue it!

I play on trying this tomorrow. However, the local station here is a "provincial" Merseyrail station where it takes 45 minutes to issue an advance ticket with a bicycle reservation, so I wonder if they will be able to handle a zero-fare over-distance excess. Otherwise I'll have to make the journey into central Liverpool to sort it out.

However, to throw another curve ball into the equation, although my ticket is London to Liverpool, my girlfriend's ticket (also SVR) is London to West Kirby! Will an excess still be possible on this one, regardless of the fact that the fare to MAN is lower than to WKI and the destination is different?

Think this is good advice. This is one of those routes which appears not to be explicitly permitted, but sounds 'reasonable'. If I were a betting man, I would expect that guards may well accept it - though it may be prudent to avoid FCC.

Do any websites give itineries via MML?

If all else fails I'll speak to the EMT guard and see what (s)he says. In the meantime I'll have a search for itineraries via MML.

 

[OwlMan]

30186 Customers travelling via Liverpool South Parkway may doubleback via Liverpool Lime Street. This easement applies in both directions.

Surely travelling Manchester -Liverpool - Manchester - MML involves doubling back through Manchester group on Map PS. There are no alternative routeings on that map which avoid Manchester.

 

[calc7]

Surely travelling Manchester -Liverpool - Manchester - MML involves doubling back through Manchester group on Map PS. There are no alternative routeings on that map which avoid Manchester.

Starting at EUS, my intention was for the OP to do EUS-LIV (break)-MAN-Midland ML-LTN (break)-STP; ie. using the validity of EUS-MAN both via LIV outbound and via LTN inbound.

As their break in LIV was for longer than a day, they would additionally need a single to get them from Liverpool to Manchester on day 4 or whatever.

However, to throw another curve ball into the equation, although my ticket is London to Liverpool, my girlfriend's ticket (also SVR) is London to West Kirby! Will an excess still be possible on this one, regardless of the fact that the fare to MAN is lower than to WKI and the destination is different?

I'm not sure this is possible. WebTIS doesn't think Manchester to Euston is permitted via WKI.

 

[34D]

I'm not sure this is possible. WebTIS doesn't think Manchester to Euston is permitted via WKI.

His question is whether the return portion of a Euston-West Kirkby ticket is valid via Bedford.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The 99 (milton keynes to Luton) bus still runs http://www.stagecoachbus.com/timeta...ationId=0&from=luton airport&to=milton keynes

Origin0435 LIVERPOOL STNS
DestinationK042 LUTON AIRBUS MK is £66 return

Whether any through rail tickets are valid on it, is another matter (I mean here Wolverton or points north thereof to Harpenden or points south thereof).

The only 'rail' tickets valid on that bus are those marked with an origin or destination of 'Luton Bus MK' or 'Luton Airbus MK'

I've had a zero-excess (overdistance) issued no problems at all at the (Northern-run, as far as I could see) main booking office at Liverpool Lime St, once I'd explained clearly what I wanted. The clerk at the Merseyrail booking office downstairs tried to do it, but didn't seem to understand the concept of a zero excess (kept saying "it's not giving me a fare for it"...)

'Over distance' should really be done before travel, but if they'll do it then fair enough.

....However, to throw another curve ball into the equation, although my ticket is London to Liverpool, my girlfriend's ticket (also SVR) is London to West Kirby! Will an excess still be possible on this one, regardless of the fact that the fare to MAN is lower than to WKI and the destination is different?....

Depends how it is excessed and by who. If done as 'over distance', then it should be okay I think, but it should really be an 'off route' excess which may cost you money.

 

[34D]

The MML through Luton is on maps AS, LB, MM, NM and SY, so therefore we need to look for a suitable change of place that will allow this as a combination.

I've looked for a couple of places (ie Liverpool-Stratford Int, Liverpool-West Hampstead), and can't find any.

 

[yorkie]

Depends how it is excessed and by who. If done as 'over distance', then it should be okay I think, but it should really be an 'off route' excess which may cost you money.

I think you mean deviation from route, which is not supposed to be excessed, as opposed to a change of route (e.g. from Route: via ABC to Route: Any Permitted)

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I think you mean deviation from route, which is not supposed to be excessed, as opposed to a change of route (e.g. from Route: via ABC to Route: Any Permitted)

No, I mean, if she is going off route (WKI-STP) to go via LTN. It could easily be 'deviation' instead of 'over distance' of the outward leg I suppose, though I think officially neither of those options are available (particularly if she actually went to WKI).