Routed tickets, alternative cheaper routes and restriction codes

[mikeg]

I wonder if anyone can produce any useful responses to this query:

If I understand correctly, The National Routeing Guide says that where you have a choice between two routed tickets and you choose one more expensive than the other, you may use this ticket via the cheaper route also.

My query is what if the more expensive ticket is in fact cheaper at a given time due to a more lenient restriction code?

For example, Birmingham Stations to Glasgow Central/Queen Street:

Looking at the prices of the off peak returns (SVR), there is a ticket via Preston which costs £119 and carries restriction 2U, and is thus valid after 0415. There is a cheaper SVR priced by CrossCountry, 'Via York', which costs £115.70, but carries restriction 2V and is therefore not valid on trains timed to depart before 0930. Am I correct in thinking that between 0415 and 0929 inclusive the ticket that should be purchased is the 'Via Preston' SVR even if I wish to travel via York? And that the 'Via Preston' ticket should be accepted? Or would it be excessed to a 'via York' SOR?

 

[horizonflame]

I believe should you travel via York then the restriction code of the cheaper routed ticket will apply to that portion of your return ticket. Officially you should obtain a zero-fare excess which would definately make you bound to the restriction code printed on the excess.

Furthermore I believe if caught on board at the restricted time you would be liable for an excess fare to the full anytime return fare.

I'm not 100% on that but no doubt someone will be along shortly to confirm.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I wonder if anyone can produce any useful responses to this query:

If I understand correctly, The National Routeing Guide says that where you have a choice between two routed tickets and you choose one more expensive than the other, you may use this ticket via the cheaper route also.

My query is what if the more expensive ticket is in fact cheaper at a given time due to a more lenient restriction code?....

In an ideal world when you are 'off route' you get an excess to the fare you would have paid had you advised the clerk that you are travelling that way before buying the ticket. The excess would always be to the cheapest fare available for the journey actually being made.

In your example, if you held a ticket routed 'via Preston' whilst actually going via York at those those specific times where the 'via York' ticket is cheaper, the excess would be zero. Because train companies don't like staff giving out 'zero fare' excess fares, you would likely just be allowed to travel with your 'via Preston' ticket, as if it is valid.

This is why the Routeing Guide notes that where there is another permitted route for which the same or lower fare applies, you can use that route.

 

[LexyBoy]

I agree with horizonflame that the restrictions of the Via York fare apply, as if a zero-fare excess were held (whether actually issued or not).

Now, who can say what the excess would be - £89 or £44.50? If it's deemed to be primarily a change of route, the lower figure should apply, whilst if it's primarily a change of ticket type, it would be the higher. I suspect it would be the full difference in fares, as the reason for the ticket not being valid is the time restriction rather than the routeing.

This is why the Routeing Guide notes that where there is another permitted route for which the same or lower fare applies, you can use that route.

The RG is a bit unclear here though IIRC, as for fare comparisons you are instructed to use the same fare (e.g. SOS), which is not necessarily that used for travel. The implication from page 2 of the instructions (section A) is that a routed fare is valid on other routes for which a lower fare applies for that journey.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....The RG is a bit unclear here though IIRC, as for fare comparisons you are instructed to use the same fare (e.g. SOS), which is not necessarily that used for travel. The implication from page 2 of the instructions (section A) is that a routed fare is valid on other routes for which a lower fare applies for that journey.

The only note on fare comparisons using the same type of ticket is in the fares check rule, which is not relevant here. The Routeing Guide does note...

HOW TO USE THE NATIONAL ROUTEING GUIDE

HOW TO DETERMINE PERMITTED ROUTES

Where the timetable offers journey opportunities over a longer route which is
not covered by a through train service, the alternative options are included in
the Routeing Guide. This may offer the customer a choice of routes for the
same overall journey. If a choice of routes is available and the fare for the
journey is described as "Any Permitted" route or is unrouted, you are free to
choose any of the routes listed in the Guide. Where the fare specifies a
particular route, you may choose only those routes listed in the Guide which
pass through the station shown in the route description. The Routeing Guide
may have to be used to find out how to reach the station shown in the route
description. Where there are other permitted routes, these may also be used
for the same journey provided the same or a lower fare applies.
To identify a permitted route the basic steps outlined below should always be
followed:

For all local journeys throughout most of the country the user should follow
the first three steps (Steps 1-3), which will identify the permitted route.
However, for longer distance journeys, where the origin and destination have
no common routeing point, stages 4 - 7 will need to be followed.

IMO, the highlighted part is not specific enough to say whether it applies to routed tickets, all tickets, or only the 'Any Permitted' tickets, however, I think that, given where it is noted in the paragraph, it should be all tickets.

 

[maniacmartin]

" provided the same or a lower fare applies. " implies to me that all partsof the lower fare's validity would have to apply - the routing and also the restriction code text (but the higher fare's restriction code could then be ignored)

 

[bb21]

Now, who can say what the excess would be - £89 or £44.50? If it's deemed to be primarily a change of route, the lower figure should apply, whilst if it's primarily a change of ticket type, it would be the higher. I suspect it would be the full difference in fares, as the reason for the ticket not being valid is the time restriction rather than the routeing.

It will be half-fare.

The excess is a change of route. You are allowed to excess to the appropriate fare when doing a change of route.