• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

"Route ." vs "Route Any Permitted"

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gagravarr

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2016
Messages
88
Looking up tickets between Oxford and Kings Sutton, I noticed a very odd thing

Off Peak Day Single - Route Any Permitted - £8.20

Off Peak Day Single - Route . - £7.30

What's the difference between a route of Any Permitted and this mystery route . ?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Nunners

Member
Joined
19 Oct 2018
Messages
321
They mean the same thing. Not quite sure why there are two.
It's because the "Any permitted" fares are for a wider cluster of origins and destinations. A cheaper fare has been defined between Oxford and Kings Sutton only which would normally automatically overrule the wider area's fare. However, some genius has come up with the route ".", so the more expensive fares are now displayed as well.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
16,620
Location
UK
Yep, basically it's down to the partial and inept rollout of route "."

Years after the rollout of this "simplified" route, you still have journeys like this where the point to point fare has one route, whilst the wider flow it's supposed to override has the other route.
 

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
17,205
For a journey from Oxford to Kings Sutton, are both the route "." and the route "Any Permitted" fares equally valid if travelling via Haddenham & Thame Parkway / Bicester North as well as via Tackley / Heyford? Or maybe not? :s
 

CyrusWuff

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2013
Messages
5,441
Location
London
For a journey from Oxford to Kings Sutton, are both the route "." and the route "Any Permitted" fares equally valid if travelling via Haddenham & Thame Parkway / Bicester North as well as via Tackley / Heyford? Or maybe not? :s
They're both equally invalid. ;)

National Routeing Guide Easements said:
700913 Customers travelling to Kings Sutton or Banbury from or via Oxford may not travel via Haddenham & Thame Parkway. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions.
 

thedbdiboy

Established Member
Joined
10 Sep 2011
Messages
1,208
In APTIS days (they were the British Rail computerised booking office ticket machines) the words 'Any Reasonable' were added to tickets where there were multiple routes that the ticket was valid for. If a ticket had a specific route or route restriction (e.g. Not London), that would be shown instead. However, for simple journeys with only one 'route', (e.g. Wandsworth Common to Clapham Junction) no route was shown - there was no need for one. In technical terms the tickets was valid by 'any reasonable route' but there was only one, direct way to go.
The problem started at privatisation, when, to get the unpopular Railways Act through Parliament, the Government required that BR interavailable ticketing should be protected. Now, this was a good idea but the problem was the fares system was designed to sell BR fares, not fares from disaggregated companies. So a lot of bodging had to be done. One of these was to turn 'Any Reasonable' to 'Any Permitted' and create a routing guide.
All non-routed interavailable fares resided in the fares system as 'Any Permitted' flows, but APTIS continued to suppress them where there was only one route. However, when APTIS was replaced, the new systems all printed 'Any Reasonable' regardless of whether it was a simple flow or a complex one.
The whole issue of fare complexity kept being raised by stakeholders and at Ministerial level and one of the issue that kept coming up was the use of the baffling term 'Any Permitted'.
The underlying reason that the fares and ticketing system got into such a mess was down to creating a requirement to maintain through, national interavailable ticketing without ANY overall process to manage it - it was parcelled out amongst TOCs who were not allowed to discuss interavailable fares with each other and were given no guidance or direction on what to do apart from complying with fare regulation (which, until 2015, allowed considerable leeway for individual fares and in any case only covered a subset of fares).
But never mind, when the great and good get together, it is decreed that 'something must be done' even if it ignored the underlying issues, and one of the promises made was to stop using 'Any Permitted' on tickets that didn't need it.
Unfortunately, by this stage the TIS/supplier market had been left to code successive systems based on outcomes rather than processes, and when it was proposed that the 'APTIS' approach should be (re)adopted it turned out that quite a few systems were incapable of having no value in the route field. Hence the dot...
There are many understandable criticisms of the fares system but the people who tried to implement this were not 'inept' - they were trying to carry out orders based on sticking plaster solutions to 'improving' fares in an environment where no-one was actually able to direct or manage changes. Certainly with the new Railway bills laid before Parliament, the one really major outcome will be that a single organisation is going to end up back in overall charge of managing the fares structure (although Wales and Scotland will still dictate their own fares). It will be the first time since 1995 that an organisation is actually in charge rather than 'representing members'.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top