Route to trainee driver?

[MidlandsChap]

Evening all

What are peoples opinions on trying to become a conductor or station assistant as a route into trainee driver roles? Are there any benefits? Do any trainee positions open to internal applicants only?

I currently have a job at a company and I have been there for 8 years, I keep intending to change career but as the job is close to home, moderate stress and okay salary (circa £27k after a couple of promotions) I have yet to move on.

I am keen to get into driving, though I have missed the recent couple of trainee positions in my area as they closed within a day or so due to high volume, and I was really keen to submit a well polished application.

Financially a slightly lower paid job wouldnt be terrible, as long as it were to lead towards my goal of becoming a driver. Just really putting this out there to get some input.

Also as another question, do freight haulage companies ever take on trainees?

Thanks

Midlands Chap

 

[Cavan]

In my TOC there is a good mix of external and internal trainee drivers. Working in another TOC job is not a guarantee at all of getting a drivers job - but will help you in interviews with experience of safety critical work etc. I know several guards who were desperate to be drivers but have failed the tests twice so now they are looking at their options.

 

[greatkingrat]

I think the main advantage is that internal candidates will usually at least get through the initial sift unless they are awful in their current job, and getting invited to an assessment in the first place can be as hard as actually passing the tests.

 

[red2005]

I personally think it’s the very best route into driving and it’s a very well trodden path!

Yes you’ll have to apply like joe bloggs off the street and every other Tom dick and Harry but you’ll certainly have an advantage in certain parts of the process.

I don’t agree with the above that it usually gets you through the sift being internal etc as it doesn’t matter what your job is or how experienced you are your application has to still be top drawer and if you’re a bit of a weapon reputations can be a hindrance.

Personally I think the advantages kick in once you’re beyond the sift and the testing..... managers when face to face will know from a conductor route you’ll have experience of working with drivers, working to the rule book, shift work, drug and alcohol policies, Hidden and safety critical roles etc etc etc and that’s before the relevant answers you’d be able to give to the interview questions and your knowledge of the company/ franchise.

There’s some fantastic drivers out there that have “come off the street” but in this day in age given the infrequency of recruitment and the numbers you’re up against etc it’s about giving yourself the best possible leg up / advantage that you can..... that’s why I feel applying from another safety critical railway role is always the best way...... purely just my opinion obviously.

Good luck

 

[MidlandsChap]

Thanks, some interesting points.

At the moment I have pretty much nothing to provide as an answer for the inevitable emergency/safety related questions, so a conductor position would be really good for that.

Furthermore the conductor role does somewhat appeal to me the only negative I could imagine being the aggro from fare dodgers, therefore I am not sure if I would want it as a permanent career, so might be an issue if I were to fail the driver tests twice. That is should I manage to make the sift.

 

[Spankthemonkey]

Thanks, some interesting points.

At the moment I have pretty much nothing to provide as an answer for the inevitable emergency/safety related questions, so a conductor position would be really good for that.

Furthermore the conductor role does somewhat appeal to me the only negative I could imagine being the aggro from fare dodgers, therefore I am not sure if I would want it as a permanent career, so might be an issue if I were to fail the driver tests twice. That is should I manage to make the sift.

Some valid points above. If you believe you have the aptitude required it might be worth you taking the tests privately (do dbschenker still do that?) before leaping into a guards job (which are also very tricky to get by the way!)

One other risk with changing careers to conductoring is that sadly the guards role is unlikely to exist in its current form beyond the next decade. However, until that happens, even a moderate amount of overtime and ticket commission would see you earn well above your current rate for virtually no stress at all.

 

[MidlandsChap]

One other risk with changing careers to conductoring is that sadly the guards role is unlikely to exist in its current form beyond the next decad

Yes, I have read suggestions about that. What would the guards role then evolve into do you think? or would it mean redundancies?

 

[Spankthemonkey]

Yes, I have read suggestions about that. What would the guards role then evolve into do you think? or would it mean redundancies?

Redundancies are extremely unlikely. The second person is likely to remain on board but in a non safety critical status (ie the train will have the ability to run in certain circumstances where they are unavailable). The role would then be almost entirely customer service and revenue based as the driver would now do the doors and self dispatch the train. Medium term, I'm guessing here, but without the safety critical bargaining tool, pay would stagnate and ts and cs would gradually be eroded. Read some of the threads on here on the OBS which replaced the safety critical guards on southern railways for more info.

 

[RBSN]

Evening all

What are peoples opinions on trying to become a conductor or station assistant as a route into trainee driver roles? Are there any benefits? Do any trainee positions open to internal applicants only?

I currently have a job at a company and I have been there for 8 years, I keep intending to change career but as the job is close to home, moderate stress and okay salary (circa £27k after a couple of promotions) I have yet to move on.

I am keen to get into driving, though I have missed the recent couple of trainee positions in my area as they closed within a day or so due to high volume, and I was really keen to submit a well polished application.

Financially a slightly lower paid job wouldnt be terrible, as long as it were to lead towards my goal of becoming a driver. Just really putting this out there to get some input.

Also as another question, do freight haulage companies ever take on trainees?

Thanks

Midlands Chap

The problem with trying to become a trainee driver is as you’ve mentioned; sheer high volume of applicants.

It’s a very sought-after job as you’ll know.

With that, TOCs don’t necessarily need to take just anyone to fill the roster, they can (and are) very specific when it comes to choosing who they offer traineeships to, so you can imagine that the bar is quite high to get over.

In regards to your post:

As I already mentioned, TOCs want a certain kind of person with a certain background or life-experience or skill. So your best bet is taking any job you can on the railway and gain experience actually working in it. It’s a different world to other sectors in many ways.

Sign up for e-mail alerts if you haven’t already and make sure you’re within an hour from the TOC you’re applying for, failure to do this will (more than likely) have your application scrapped before it’s started.

The only small plus would be to have your psychometric exams passed prior to applying for a trainee drivers role. But it needs to be highlighted that it’s a marginal plus and won’t, in reality, mean a job if the rest of your application doesn’t meet the TOCs requirement.

 

[Scouse_scott]

I think you may been focusing on the railway side abit too much when it comes to the route to trainee train driver. If you can find a role on the railway that requires the exact same skills as a train driver and gives you all the perfect answers to the MMI great!

But most roles won't do that for you. The key to getting through the sift and getting the OPC tests passed is having experience and skills in all the areas they are looking for. So if you have never worked on your own for long periods of time go get some experience doing it. If you haven't been on a long course and had to learn something new go and do that. In the simplest of ways tocs and the opc are just looking for you to tick a few boxes on the skills they want, it doesn't matter where you get them from

That's my advice, hope it helps

 

[MidlandsChap]

I think you may been focusing on the railway side abit too much when it comes to the route to trainee train driver. If you can find a role on the railway that requires the exact same skills as a train driver and gives you all the perfect answers to the MMI great!

But most roles won't do that for you. The key to getting through the sift and getting the OPC tests passed is having experience and skills in all the areas they are looking for. So if you have never worked on your own for long periods of time go get some experience doing it. If you haven't been on a long course and had to learn something new go and do that. In the simplest of ways tocs and the opc are just looking for you to tick a few boxes on the skills they want, it doesn't matter where you get them from

That's my advice, hope it helps

Yes you are correct.

However the only real example I have of working alone is when I work from home once a fortnight. I just dont feel that would cut the mustard when compared to the more relevant answers other candidates are likely to have. For example guards who will be working alone in safety critical situations, the only danger I face is dripping coffee into my employers laptop.

 

[Scouse_scott]

Have you ever driven on a long car journey before? I know someone whos used that answer and passed.

Its Just all about presenting it in the way the tocs and opc want. Make sure you hit the key buzz words and get the boxes ticked for the skills they are looking for and you'd sail through any of the interviews or sift.

Like you said earlier, you want to get that application polished to perfection. That's the only real route to becoming a trainee driver.

 

[red2005]

Yes you are correct.

However the only real example I have of working alone is when I work from home once a fortnight. I just dont feel that would cut the mustard when compared to the more relevant answers other candidates are likely to have. For example guards who will be working alone in safety critical situations, the only danger I face is dripping coffee into my employers laptop.

In that case mate turn a negative into a positive..... if you’ve not worked alone for long periods do you do anything in your hobbies that require you to spend long periods of time alone?

A friend of mine was in that same predicament and he used the fact that he did long distance cycling in his spare time and very often on his own..... because of the busy roads he often used he had to use his concentration for long periods of time whilst obeying the rules of the roads.

It was just a thought as that way the people interviewing get to see your life outside the job too which is quite important.

Good luck mate.

 

[tiptoptaff]

If someone told me during an interview they were a cyclist AND they obeyed the rules of the road I'd chuck them out for lying to me.

 

[red2005]

If someone told me during an interview they were a cyclist AND they obeyed the rules of the road I'd chuck them out for lying to me.

I never said that effort to make it sound convincing wasn’t required Hahahaha!

 

[RD81]

Lot of good advice here. It's true the TOCs have so many applicants for every vacancy they post, they only want the best. However, experience isn't enough you still have to have an excellent application that demonstrates all the attributes of a train driver.

There are obvious careers they find desirable such as military, police, emergency services etc. Because these careers will have demonstrated you remaining calm under pressure. Dealing with emergencies and following rules and safety procedures. But don't let that deter you. As long as you can think of strong examples from your work and personal life you will have as good a chance as any to get called in for an assessment. My advice is never give up...it can and usually will take years of knockbacks before you get the nod.

 

[RD81]

In my MMI I used that exact example when they asked for time I've had to concentrate for a long period of time, driving home after Christmas. And it was perfectly acceptable l discussed issues I'd faced, techniques I'd used to maintain focus. Etc. Ticked all the boxes...when in doubt just go with what you know. Just make sure you refer back to the role of a driver with every point you're making.

 

[red2005]

In my MMI I used that exact example when they asked for time I've had to concentrate for a long period of time, driving home after Christmas. And it was perfectly acceptable l discussed issues I'd faced, techniques I'd used to maintain focus. Etc. Ticked all the boxes...when in doubt just go with what you know. Just make sure you refer back to the role of a driver with every point you're making.

This is absolutely spot on! People can become obsessed in ensuring their examples come from the workplace..... unless they’ve specified that’s where they want it from who cares whether it’s the workplace or a hobby?

I’m sure there’s hobbies/interests out there that require discipline or rules & regulations or lots of the other qualities required for train driving.

 

[MidlandsChap]

Appreciate the advice everybody, really glad to hear that answers and experience based on safety critical employment are essential.

I do both long distance driving and cycling, so I will try and really perfect a couple of answers based on these.

MC

 

[Grannyjoans]

The path I took was: Platform Staff (despatch / customer assistance ) to Maintenance Depot Driver to Mainline Driver

Once you've got into the TOC in any safety critical role as long as you can pass the psychometrics it's normally just a question of time before you get the Drivers positions. If you fail the psychometrics twice you're out until they change the tests again. If you fail the corporate interview you can just try again next time there is no limit on the amount of times you can fail this.

 

[Grannyjoans]

Also as another question, do freight haulage companies ever take on trainees?

Rarely happens, but it is possible. However it's the TOC's that take on trainees in large numbers, particularly those with a lot of suburban/stopping services.
TOCs with more desirable work (express passenger) take on qualified nearly every time.
Freight is a bit different because even though the work is more desirable, the roster and shifts are much worse. But they will still mostly take on qualified.