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Route learning

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Newconductor

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Hi all
I've just started my conductors training course and really look forward to the route learning. I thought I'd get to ride up front with the driver but this is apparently not allowed. Does anyone know why? I've seen other trainee drivers and other drivers ride up front with the driver.
 
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RPM

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It is a matter of individual company policy. The reasoning is probably down to a desire to keep driver distraction to a minimum. I don't think guards ever route learn up front at my TOC - I've never had one with me anyway. Other TOCs may differ. I suppose you may as well learn it from the back cab as that is where you will be when you pass out!
 

Flamingo

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As said, it'll distract the driver. I find route learning better from inside the train, the view out the side windows is different than out the cab, and that's what the guard sees when they are going through the train anyway.
 
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A conductor route learns from the back can as that is where a conductor will work from. Unless special circumstances dictate, a conductor is forbidden from entering the driving cab with most Toc's.
 

Monty

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I can only repeat what others have said it's an unnecessary distraction for the driver. There is no real need for you to up there anyway, you are better placed to do route learning from the rear or middle cabs of the train. Your primary concern will be the location of signals, banner repeaters & OFF indicators at stations aswell as the platform lengths and shapes themselves, there are many other route details you'll be required to know also (level crossing names, tunnels & junctions etc) but all in good time. If you are that keen to get up front if you ask very nicely your trainer may be able to arrange for you to get a cab pass for the day.
 
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Flamingo

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That and bacon sarnies I'm led to believe ;)

Bloody hell, you know some spoiled drivers! Our lot get tea and bikkies if they are good, if not the bikkies get crushed to crumbs, and the tea-bag gets forgotten! <D
 

Mattmatt

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Neither here, nor there, but somewhere in-between!
Im a trainee Conductor with Northern & you are only allowed in the front cab for the following: DSD or DVE Failure, Observing the line in Adverse Weather - Fog, Snow poor Light & tunnels; It is Only then are you allowed in the cab & are classed as a competent person for the safe running of the train. (at least from Northern's point of view)

Now i'm sure that the odd rule gets twisted occasionally - But if you value your job i'd keep out of the front cab; as you'll never know if there's a senior manager on board your train or a manager doing some distance supervision from a station! - it happens!

Route learn from the back & inside the train.
 

BravoGolfMike

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I am a driver and actually think it would be quite beneficial for guards to have at least one trip up front whilst in training or as part of their route learning. We could then point things out from our point of view and it would help the guards see why we get tetchy at certain things, for example if we get buzzed off against a red or without an RA if one is required. We could point out various useful bits of information which probably get overlooked in guard school which could come in handy. The more other people know about my job the easier it is for me, that goes for signallers, route managers and even company directors.
I had a network rail area manager ride with me once (legal and above board) to check part of the line which had been reported as rough riding. Whilst up front I was explaining bits of the route which can cause problems, particularly badly sighted signals, areas where vegetation needs cutting back before the Autumn, an inexplicably placed whistle board etc. He explained a few things to me and we both found the trip to be beneficial.
Common sense and good cab discipline negates most of the distraction concerns as far as I'm concerned, that said my job is important to me so nobody comes in unless its above board but I do think guards should have at least one trip up front with us.
 

ANorthernGuard

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Im a trainee Conductor with Northern & you are only allowed in the front cab for the following: DSD or DVE Failure, Observing the line in Adverse Weather - Fog, Snow poor Light & tunnels; It is Only then are you allowed in the cab & are classed as a competent person for the safe running of the train. (at least from Northern's point of view)

Now i'm sure that the odd rule gets twisted occasionally - But if you value your job i'd keep out of the front cab; as you'll never know if there's a senior manager on board your train or a manager doing some distance supervision from a station! - it happens!

Route learn from the back & inside the train.

Absolutely Spot on!
 

185

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Im a trainee Conductor with Northern & you are only allowed in the front cab for the following: DSD or DVE Failure, Observing the line in Adverse Weather - Fog, Snow poor Light & tunnels; It is Only then are you allowed in the cab & are classed as a competent person for the safe running of the train. (at least from Northern's point of view)

Now i'm sure that the odd rule gets twisted occasionally - But if you value your job i'd keep out of the front cab; as you'll never know if there's a senior manager on board your train or a manager doing some distance supervision from a station! - it happens!

Route learn from the back & inside the train.

And doing it whilst awake is useful, unlike two certain ex-First North Western Picc guards <D
 

RPM

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I am a driver and actually think it would be quite beneficial for guards to have at least one trip up front whilst in training or as part of their route learning. We could then point things out from our point of view and it would help the guards see why we get tetchy at certain things, for example if we get buzzed off against a red or without an RA if one is required. We could point out various useful bits of information which probably get overlooked in guard school which could come in handy. The more other people know about my job the easier it is for me, that goes for signallers, route managers and even company directors.
I had a network rail area manager ride with me once (legal and above board) to check part of the line which had been reported as rough riding. Whilst up front I was explaining bits of the route which can cause problems, particularly badly sighted signals, areas where vegetation needs cutting back before the Autumn, an inexplicably placed whistle board etc. He explained a few things to me and we both found the trip to be beneficial.
Common sense and good cab discipline negates most of the distraction concerns as far as I'm concerned, that said my job is important to me so nobody comes in unless its above board but I do think guards should have at least one trip up front with us.

I don't disagree with that at all but I think it is unlikely to ever happen. I always think it would be good for signallers to join us up front too, and for drivers to spend the odd afternoon in signal boxes so we learn to understand things from each other's point of view. To be fair, management always agree it would be useful, l but it never happens because it is regarded as unproductive work in an environment where it is difficult enough to cover the essential productive work.
 

BravoGolfMike

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I agree it will probably never happen re. guards but as part of my drivers course we spent an hour in an IECC and an hour in an AB box, I'm not sure if they still do it but it was a good experience. I don't see why guards can't have one trip up front then count it towards their route learning total to get around the productivity argument, I'm pretty sure it would be more useful than spending another trip in the back.
 

whhistle

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Hi all
I've just started my conductors training course and really look forward to the route learning. I thought I'd get to ride up front with the driver but this is apparently not allowed. Does anyone know why? I've seen other trainee drivers and other drivers ride up front with the driver.

You answered your own question.
You've seen other trainee drivers and drivers ride "up front".
You are neither :P

However I guess a job with CrossCountry yes?
 
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