Route learning Avanti

[PlexiDriver]

Hey,

Just curious, how does Avanti, at its Euston depot, expect drivers to become competent in route?

Like do they all sign Euston to Wolves with a diversion first? And then when they do what's the progression to other routes?

Thanks in advance!

 

[43066]

Hey,

Just curious, how does Avanti, at its Euston depot, expect drivers to become competent in route?

Like do they all sign Euston to Wolves with a diversion first? And then when they do what's the progression to other routes?

Thanks in advance!

From speaking to of a couple of people who have joined Euston depot, they sign off London - Birmingham initially and become productive on that while learning the rest of the core routes + diversions.

 

[PlexiDriver]

So London to Birmingham New Street? Do you happen to know what the other core routes and diversions are?

 

[clarets2005]

So London to Birmingham New Street? Do you happen to know what the other core routes and diversions are?

Different Driver Depot, Route and Traction cards

One of the most common questions asked on this forum is what do train crew at a particular depot sign. Given we have an excellent thread listing every depot for every TOC in the country, and we have staff representing most if not all TOCs as well, I've been attempting to collate a list of every...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[PlexiDriver]

Different Driver Depot, Route and Traction cards

One of the most common questions asked on this forum is what do train crew at a particular depot sign. Given we have an excellent thread listing every depot for every TOC in the country, and we have staff representing most if not all TOCs as well, I've been attempting to collate a list of every...

www.railforums.co.uk

I've seen that but I felt it might be a touch out of date - also I'm not sure what links are which and so forth

 

[2857]

Euston sign to Preston via Birmingham and the Trent Valley. Manchester and Liverpool are link specific.
As for Chester I don't know the current situation as this has changed recently with Holyhead Depot opening up.

 

[irish_rail]

I believe the lower links at Euston just do Wolverhampton and Manchester. They don't do Preston I don't think and definetley not Liverpool or Chester, but they add those as they progress up the links. It certainly isn't a great route card in the bottom link, I'd guess lots of work to and from Wembley depot also.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I believe the lower links at Euston just do Wolverhampton and Manchester. They don't do Preston I don't think and definetley not Liverpool or Chester, but they add those as they progress up the links. It certainly isn't a great route card in the bottom link, I'd guess lots of work to and from Wembley depot also.

Dont think they sign 221s in the lower links either, 390 only!

 

[Aviator88]

I believe the lower links at Euston just do Wolverhampton and Manchester. They don't do Preston I don't think and definetley not Liverpool or Chester, but they add those as they progress up the links. It certainly isn't a great route card in the bottom link, I'd guess lots of work to and from Wembley depot also.

I spoke to a fella who was 80 hrs into his handling who had just driven Euston - Manchester, so that makes sense!

 

[PlexiDriver]

So if you started on the bottom link you'd learn Euston to Manchester and Wolves with stops in between?

Will those also learn the two 80x classes?

 

[AJDesiro]

So if you started on the bottom link you'd learn Euston to Manchester and Wolves with stops in between?

Will those also learn the two 80x classes?

Given that Euston-Birmingham/Wolves is expected to be the first route for the 80x, and a third of services will be operated by 80x, there may be a slight chance, though it wouldn't surprise me if Wolverhampton traincrew are able to cover the required services with sufficient resources.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

It used to be 4 links, bottom link doing 221/390, Preston (via west midlands and Trent valley), Manchester.
Link 3 added Chester
Link 2 and 1 lose 221 and Chester but gain Liverpool

This was a few years ago so it’s probably changed since then, Euston no longer go to Chester I believe now.

 

[SA91]

Hey,

Just curious, how does Avanti, at its Euston depot, expect drivers to become competent in route?

Like do they all sign Euston to Wolves with a diversion first? And then when they do what's the progression to other routes?

Thanks in advance!

As a trainee, you do your 225 hours handling but don't sign anything in terms of routes. Once qualified, you then route learn Euston to Wolves. This is split up as initially learning Wembley depot, then progressing onto learning Euston to Rugby via Weedon and Northampton. After that, it's Rugby to Wolves via New St (as well as learning the Grand Jn diversion).

Once that is signed, you can work your Sundays and immediately start route learning Preston. This starts off with Rugby to Crewe via Trent Valley (along with the small section which connects Wolverhampton and Stafford). After that it's Crewe to Preston.

Route learning Manchester takes place I believe after at least one year of signing the core route and being placed in link 3. Links 1 & 2 sign Liverpool. No new starters are learning 221s as they are going to be phased out by the 805/807s.

 

[ThePeakNed]

As a trainee, you do your 225 hours handling but don't sign anything in terms of routes.

Surely you must sign something as a core route in order for you to be passed out...

 

[martin2345uk]

No, same for us at Freightliner, you pass out as a qualified driver and then you start route learning. You always have someone with you who signs the route while doing your hours.

 

[WrongRoad]

There’s a difference between Passing out & fully productive.
Passing out is that you’ve passed the final driver’s assessment and are a qualified driver with rules and traction knowledge, fully productive is that you sign whichever routes the company need you to know and your capable to drive that route on your own in passenger service.

 

[tiptoptaff]

That's interesting, at GWR you're passed out with full core route knowledge. You are passed out fully productive in your link.

 

[ThePeakNed]

There’s a difference between Passing out & fully productive.
Passing out is that you’ve passed the final driver’s assessment and are a qualified driver with rules and traction knowledge, fully productive is that you sign whichever routes the company need you to know and your capable to drive that route on your own in passenger service.

I appreciate that. But you're not with an instructor when you pass out, you're with a DTM. And surely a DTM isn't expected to tell you where to shut off and where to brake when they're passing you out...

 

[tiptoptaff]

I appreciate that. But you're not with an instructor when you pass out, you with a DTM. And surely a DTM isn't expected to tell you where to shut off and where to brake when they're passing you out...

100% agree with this.

By the time I came to pass out, my managers expected me to know the route. If they'd had to tell me where to brake, I'd have failed

 

[ComUtoR]

When I first passed out, we didn't have any route knowledge but drove the routes to a decent standard because you have done all your hours driving them. We were never assessed on the routes and wasn't expected to have any real knowledge of them.

Fast forward a few years, and the new Trainees are expected to be fully productive on day 1. All routes and traction signed. Some consider it to be too much for new Drivers.

 

[Horizon22]

I've seen that but I felt it might be a touch out of date - also I'm not sure what links are which and so forth

It's very much in date (was updated only today!) but that obviously does not mean on Day 1 you'd would sign all of it, probably only the core. Link information comes as we have it.

 

[craigybagel]

It's very much in date (was updated only today!) but that obviously does not mean on Day 1 you'd would sign all of it, proabbly ony the core. Link information comes as we have it.

Indeed, the list is as up to date as I can make it, but in most cases it is relying on information passed on from other staff. I appreciate the Avanti list is a little vague compared to some of the other TOCs but there are few regular Avanti traincrew posters on this site.

 

[PlexiDriver]

Indeed, the list is as up to date as I can make it, but in most cases it is relying on information passed on from other staff. I appreciate the Avanti list is a little vague compared to some of the other TOCs but there are few regular Avanti traincrew posters on this site.

Oh of course, I'm not criticising at all, but just wanted some specific answers if people had em! Doing a fine job with that list, but it was more what link specific jobs there are and so on, thanks for all the helpful info

 

[800301]

That's interesting, at GWR you're passed out with full core route knowledge. You are passed out fully productive in your link.

As much as I think it’s the best way, it does seem to be increasingly hard to get core route hours at some depots due to instructors being in different links that don’t have a lot of core route work, so I do wonder if it would be more efficient having drivers get their handling hours in and then go route learning after

 

[390136]

Given that Euston-Birmingham/Wolves is expected to be the first route for the 80x, and a third of services will be operated by 80x, there may be a slight chance, though it wouldn't surprise me if Wolverhampton traincrew are able to cover the required services with sufficient resources.

Kinda how it works now. 221's on the EBW are usually covered by Wolves and Preston drivers and 390's are covered by Euston and Manchester drivers

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2023 ==

I appreciate that. But you're not with an instructor when you pass out, you're with a DTM. And surely a DTM isn't expected to tell you where to shut off and where to brake when they're passing you out...

You'd have an understanding of the route because you've been driving it for so long however you won't officially sign it and can't go out on your own despite being passed out. My friend passed out a year ago and is only just finishing their routes.

 

[PlexiDriver]

Kinda how it works now. 221's on the EBW are usually covered by Wolves and Preston drivers and 390's are covered by Euston and Manchester drivers

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2023 ==


You'd have an understanding of the route because you've been driving it for so long however you won't officially sign it and can't go out on your own despite being passed out. My friend passed out a year ago and is only just finishing their routes.

Do you know roughly how long the company gives you to pass the different stages? Like is it all one time, or do they give, say, a month for traction and a month for route learning?

 

[clarets2005]

Do you know roughly how long the company gives you to pass the different stages? Like is it all one time, or do they give, say, a month for traction and a month for route learning?

It will all be done in segments. You'll likely do some sort of induction before progressing on to the basics like PTS, maybe some cab experience (front end turns) watching a driver, then on to Rules, before you do traction.

 

[PlexiDriver]

It will all be done in segments. You'll likely do some sort of induction before progressing on to the basics like PTS, maybe some cab experience (front end turns) watching a driver, then on to Rules, before you do traction.

Even as a qualified?

 

[390136]

Do you know roughly how long the company gives you to pass the different stages? Like is it all one time, or do they give, say, a month for traction and a month for route learning?

I am not sure so can’t give an answer I’m afraid!

 

[SA91]

Do you know roughly how long the company gives you to pass the different stages? Like is it all one time, or do they give, say, a month for traction and a month for route learning?

Roughly a month for traction yes and they give enough time to learn the route comprehensively. Route learning is done in stages. Different depots will vary how they do it, but at Euston, it is done as Wembley depot first, then Euston to Rugby, then Rugby to Wolves. That's your core route.