"Route: +Any permitted" on a CIV ticket

[thebigcheese]

On March 19th I have a trip planned to Paris leaving from St Pancakes around 10am. I definitely want the benefit of a CIV ticket so will be booking one marked London International from the domestic Eurostar tele-sales people.

However as I always like to get the most 'efficient' ticket possible I have a query about the 'Any Permitted' route on my ticket. The station I will be departing from is Rochester RTR and an the equivalent of an Anytime Return is £27.80. However should I purchase a ticket from Swanley and start short the ticket price is reduced to £17.20. As the ticket is "Any Permitted" and you can purchase 'Plus High Speed' tickets from Swanley would the ticket be valid.

I've also discovered the following but would appreciate a definitive answer:

Customers travelling from Swanley via Ebbsfleet International in possession of tickets routed "Plus High Speed" may travel via Rochester. This easement applies in both directions

Thanks!

 

[bb21]

But the ticket is not routed Plus High Speed. It is routed Any Permitted so the easement would not apply.

 

[thebigcheese]

Ah so there's no defence in saying that 'Any permitted' would automatically include 'Plus high speed'?

On NRE I can get single ticket journeys from Swanley to St Pancakes using HS1, easement aside would this establish validity?

 

[bb21]

It may be possible to justify it that way, but it can be tricky, as there is no Any Permitted fare between Swanley and London Terminals.

I must say I am now a little confused.

The Routeing Guide shows a map permission HK between Swanley and London Group, but map HK does not have Swanley on it.

I suspect that as HK is a High Speed map, the intention is that Swanley should be on it to give a mapped route in the manner you proposed (and if so, you would be perfectly fine using an Any Permitted fare that way), but it is not there for some reason.

It is much less clear cut than I thought initially.

 

[MikeWh]

Ah so there's no defence in saying that 'Any permitted' would automatically include '+high speed'?

On NRE I can get single ticket journeys from Swanley to St Pancakes using HS1, easement aside would this establish validity?

Being ultra picky, it is PLUS HIGH SPEED rather than +HIGH SPEED, where the latter would suggest cross London availability by tube/dlr etc.

 

[thebigcheese]

Aha MikeWh - I like being picky too! I've just edited it.

Normally I'd just put it into NRE but can't select London International as a destination. Hmmm....

 

[34D]

Are you catching your Eurostar at St Pancras or at Ebbsfleet? You mention both....

 

[thebigcheese]

Oh I'd be going to St Pancras but I think the easement is worded like that as there's a direct service from Swanley to St P.

The journey Swanley to St Pancakes does have tickets 'plus high speed' so I assume it is a valid route, it's just whether that ticket is valid for it?

 

[thebigcheese]

So I ended up e-mailing SET who replied yesterday rather unhelpfully and inaccurately stating:
"Unfortunately tickets printed with "Any route permitted" is not permitted for use on High Speed without the purchase of an upgrade. Instead it can be used on any mainline route."

The trip got cancelled anyway but it's disappointing not to have a definite answer

 

[maniacmartin]

Here's what they told me back in July 2012:

Thank you for your web form, which we received on 18 July.

I've taken careful note of what you've told us and will ask our website management team to review the position.

It's certainly true that all tickets that are endorsed 'any permitted' are valid on our High Speed services (provided, of course, that the routeing is correct), as are those that are endorsed 'plus high speed'. The only tickets that are not valid are those endorsed 'not valid on HS1', unless the holder has purchased an upgrade (supplement) ticket.

Thank you once more for contacting us.

Yours sincerely

Nothing changed on the website after this response, sadly