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Round the USA

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Hellfire

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I've just travelled from Seattle to Chicago on the Empire Builder which was a fantastic experience.

I see from the Amtrack map it is possible to go from Chicago via New Orleans, Los Angeles, Seattle and back to Chicago again.

Has any forum member ever done this?
 
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Greenback

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No, but I have done a truncated version back in 2003 when I went Chicago - Seattle -Los Angeles - Chicago.

I found the Empire Builder Builder a little tedious on the second day, untilw e reached the Rockies. Shortly after that it got dark! My advice to anyone choosing to travel that way would be to do it in summer to take advantage of the longer days.

I found the Coast Starlight and the Southwest Chief a lot more interesting scenery wise. I have read that the LA - New Orleans trip can be a bit boring too. That, and lack of time, put me off doing the big circle.
 

edwin_m

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Having done all three I'd choose the Calfornia Zephyr over the Southwest Chief or Sunset Limited for the transcontinental leg. Just make sure you do the climb/descent of the Rockies west of Denver in daylight.
 

mac

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Was it on time? I have just been from Boston to New York 10 minutes late, New York to Washington on time and Washington to Chicago on time which I thought was good considering the distance. Talking to someone on the train from Washington and he had been on one from LA to somewhere and it was 3 days late
 

Greenback

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Having done all three I'd choose the Calfornia Zephyr over the Southwest Chief or Sunset Limited for the transcontinental leg. Just make sure you do the climb/descent of the Rockies west of Denver in daylight.

I regret that I haven't ridden the Zephyr. I have read many opinions that say it is the best trans continental route. Oh well, it'll have to be next time!
 

Squaddie

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Was it on time? I have just been from Boston to New York 10 minutes late, New York to Washington on time and Washington to Chicago on time which I thought was good considering the distance. Talking to someone on the train from Washington and he had been on one from LA to somewhere and it was 3 days late
The east coast trains generally keep good time: it's the transcontinental trains that tend to be very late. When I took the Empire Builder a couple of years ago it arrived in Chicago about four hours late (although at one point in the journey we had been six hours down). The greatest delay I've ever experienced in the US was on a train from Chicago to San Antonio, which arrived 10 hours late.

Over its entire network, Amtrak's on-time performance (defined as arriving at its final destination within 30 minutes of the advertised time) in 2012 was 78%, but it varies greatly. For example, the on-time performance of the Empire Builder in September 2013 was only 45%.
 

ainsworth74

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And we complain that on-time for our services of 5/10 minutes isn't good enough :lol:

Though I suppose to be fair we don't run services that measure their journey time in days...
 

trainosaurus

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I've just travelled from Seattle to Chicago on the Empire Builder which was a fantastic experience.

I see from the Amtrack map it is possible to go from Chicago via New Orleans, Los Angeles, Seattle and back to Chicago again.

Has any forum member ever done this?

I've not done that exact route but I have done a pretty circuitous route around the States with a couple of gaps.

NY - New Orleans

New Orleans - LA

LA - Vancouver

Vancouver back to Portland where I flew from to Salt Lake City

SLC - Chicago

Chicago - Albany (and on to Buffalo, NY with a replacement bus)

Toronto - Boston

Boston to NY by bus.
 

DownSouth

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You also have to consider that Amtrak services outside of the Northeast Corridor are unwanted guests on the freight railroads. The railroads only accept them because they come with generous subsidies which help maintain the tracks for speeds that wouldn't otherwise be necessary for freight.

It is a similar situation on the long transcontinental railways of Australia, where the distances involved make rail (outside the commuter belts and a limited number of regional services) an unviable passenger transport option. The GSR "land cruise" trains like The Ghan and the Indian-Pacific are a luxury for rich tourists, railfans and excessively subsidised pensioners. GSR schedules openly advertise a +/- 60 minute margin, if you're not there to catch it an hour before the advertised time you are liable to be left behind if it turns up early, which is a very real possibility depending on what else is going on in the city where it starts - even to the point of being affected by what happens on lines of completely different track gauges!

In contrast, the freight transported on the Adelaide-Perth and Adelaide-Darwin lines makes up about 90% of land freight on the equivalent corridors and is critical for the national and local economies. Due to the closure of local breweries, Perth would quickly become a dry zone if the Transcontinental line was closed, which would be a disaster about as serious as a zombie apocalypse :o
 
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duncanp

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A similar situation occurs in Canada, where VIA Rail trains play second fiddle to the freight trains.

I travelled on the Canadian from Vancouver to Toronto earlier this year, and at one point we waited in a passing loop for nearly an hour whilst three freight trains came the other way. These freight trains are huge, the longest one I counted had 154 wagons behind two locomotives.

There is also a lot of padding in the Canadian timetables. On the evening of the last day, we left a place called Hornepayne, Ontario three hours late. Somehow though we were only half an hour late into Toronto the following morning.

I am also hoping to go to the US in two years time, and travel from Chicago to St Louis, Dallas and Austin.
 

ianhr

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I regret that I haven't ridden the Zephyr. I have read many opinions that say it is the best trans continental route. Oh well, it'll have to be next time!

I have done Empire Builder, South West Chief and the Cal Zeph and would say that the Cal Zeph has by far the best scenery,at least west of Denver, out of these 3. I am hoping to do the SP Sunset Route from San Antonio to LA next Spring. Which routes you go far can of course be influenced by which if any stop overs you want to make. The ex-Santa Fe route has some interesting places to stop e.g. Santa Fe, it runs every day and apart from Kansas-Albuquerque is mostly double track with relatively good speeds....and of course you get Cajon Pass! (the most dramatic train watching in America?).
 

Taunton

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There is also a lot of padding in the Canadian timetables. On the evening of the last day, we left a place called Hornepayne, Ontario three hours late. Somehow though we were only half an hour late into Toronto the following morning.
Oh, I remember Hornepayne, long long ago, in the 1970s. The eastbound stop then was at about 2 am. The diner, which like the rest of the train had come right through from Vancouver, got a hot box on approach, and was detached in the middle of the night. This involved multiple shunts forward and backward in the absolute pitch dark beyond the handful of lights at the Hornepayne station building, using the 4 x F-unit train locomotives which all seemed to have different lags of responses to the throttle. Everybody was woken up by the jolts and brake applications, culminating in propelling the seating coaches back onto the sleepers at what must have been a good 5-10 mph, which probably threw half the occupants of the latter out of bed. We were hours late, and when the sleep-disturbed passengers got up for a 7 am breakfast they found nothing - no diner, no food.
 

Hellfire

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Was it on time? I have just been from Boston to New York 10 minutes late, New York to Washington on time and Washington to Chicago on time which I thought was good considering the distance. Talking to someone on the train from Washington and he had been on one from LA to somewhere and it was 3 days late

It arrived in Chicago two hours late what was scheduled as a 47 hour journey. That was not a problem for us as we were on holiday. Most other passengers were also leisure travellers.

However we did meet people who were travelling for a specific purpose usually to visit friends and family. The reason most of them gave for using the train was either a fear of flying or they were just fed up with the rigmarole of security and the sheer discomfort of sitting in a plane.

As someone has already pointed out, freight rules in the US although I was surprised at how much of the journey was double tracked so delays waiting for freight trains to pass were minimal. The conductor told me that the freight company which owned the line, Burlington,Northern & Santa Fe actually got hit with financial penalties if passenger trains were delayed. Having said that there is huge padding in the timetable.

The vast distances in the US mean trains will never supersede flying on anything other than commuter routes. There was general scepticism among the train staff that the mooted high speed line between San Francisco and Los Angeles would ever happen. Politicians in the States don't generally like subsidised transport
 
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ianhr

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It arrived in Chicago two hours late what was scheduled as a 47 hour journey. That was not a problem for us as we were on holiday. Most other passengers were also leisure travellers.

However we did meet people who were travelling for a specific purpose usually to visit friends and family. The reason most of them gave for using the train was either a fear of flying or they were just fed up with the rigmarole of security and the sheer discomfort of sitting in a plane.


The vast distances in the US mean trains will never supersede flying on anything other than commuter routes. There was general scepticism among the train staff that the mooted high speed line between San Francisco and Los Angeles would ever happen. Politicians in the States don't generally like subsidised transport

That concurs with my experience. I have always found American trains to be a very sociable space where one can expect friendly company and good conversation. People seem to ride the trains in America because they actually like travelling by train and not because they are in a hurry to get somewhere. The dining cars are a particularly good place to meet people because if you are travelling alone the stewards usually seat you at a table with 2 or 3 other passengers.

With respect to your last point I have the impression that they do not like to be seen to subsidise long distance transport, although the airlines and road hauliers do get a large 'hidden' subsidy. However the medium distance subsidy for Amtrak has recently been shifted from Federal to State funding and Amtrak has had to negotiate with individual states for routes of 200-300 miles e.g. Philadelphia-Pittsburgh, Chicago-St.Louis, Ft Worth-Oklahoma City etc and EVERY state has stumped up the cash rather than lose passenger trains. States and cities seem quite happy to subsidise urban, suburban and regional trains. Systems such as New Jersey Transit, Septa, Metra (Chicagoland) and Metrolink Rail (Southern California) provide high quality frequent service at very low fares by British standards, and the trains are clean, punctual and there are plenty of seats!!!
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I've just travelled from Seattle to Chicago on the Empire Builder which was a fantastic experience.

I've not done the train ride, but I have stayed in the old Great Northern hotel at East Glacier and the Izaak Walton Inn in Essex (the old crew depot with cabooses for hire).
I don't expect you got off the train at East Glacier but the hotel, and the whole of Glacier National Park with its network of GN-developed lodges and trails is spectacular.
As is the sight of double-stack container trains threading the mountains.
 

jamesontheroad

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I've not quite done the full circle on Amtrak, but I have done it on both Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada.

In 2006 I bought a North America Rail Pass (now discontinued, sadly) which permitted the bearer one month's continuous travel on both Amtrak and VIA Rail. I combined a student discount with the best available "low season" fare by traveling at the latest possible date before the "high season" fare kicked in.

Starting in Montréal, I traveled to Chicago (Adirondack / Lake Shore Limited), Denver (California Zephyr), San Francisco, Seattle (Coast Starlight), Vancouver (Cascades), Edmonton (Canadian), Winnipeg, Churchill, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montréal (fed the cats ;) Halifax and Montréal again.

theroute.jpg


18,972km!

For the intrepid reader, I blogged about the entire trip (mostly from cyber cafés along the way - I didn't carry a laptop and this was before the mobile internet was useable for blogging). Everything is online here, although note that it is in reverse order because of the nature of the blog.

http://jamesbrownontherails.blogspot.co.uk

The blog started as a kind of open letter to friends and family, hence the tone of much of my writing. However it gradually became a more public and widely read thing.

There is a Flickr pool of all the photos from the trip (1200+) in chronological order here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesbrownontheroad/sets/72157627031887153/
 

Squaddie

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People seem to ride the trains in America because they actually like travelling by train and not because they are in a hurry to get somewhere. The dining cars are a particularly good place to meet people because if you are travelling alone the stewards usually seat you at a table with 2 or 3 other passengers.
When I travelled on Empire Builder in 2011 the dining car steward insisted that my travelling companion and I share a table with other passengers, even though the dining car was half empty, and even insisted that we had to sit side-by-side and not facing across the table.

I got the impression that the famed American hospitality doesn't really extend to Amtrak's dining cars: some of the staff were surly, impatient and downright rude. Thankfully, in the US you can make your displeasure quite clear by declining to leave a tip (which we did, even though it creates a very awkward moment).

On the other hand, the sleeping car attendant was superb throughout our journey. We gave her a generous tip and also wrote to Amtrak praising her.
 

Taunton

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Passenger trains on long-distance routes in the USA are not really treated as unwanted by the US companies, because most of them were required, by the laws that authorised their construction in the first place, to provide a passenger service, and to apply to the government if they wanted to discontinue them, which was never readily given for the main routes. When the government-controlled Amtrak offered to take over this liability and run it for them in 1971, they almost all jumped at the opportunity, but in return they have to provide the paths and priority for them. They are free to tell Amtrak to withdraw, but would then have to provide their own equivalent in its place - and none have done so.
 

ianhr

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When the government-controlled Amtrak offered to take over this liability and run it for them in 1971, they almost all jumped at the opportunity, but in return they have to provide the paths and priority for them. They are free to tell Amtrak to withdraw, but would then have to provide their own equivalent in its place - and none have done so.

Yes, at that time Southern, Rock Island and D&RGW declined to join Amtrak and continued to run their own passenger trains well into the 1970's. I think Rock Island eventually got out of the obligation by going bankrupt, Southern joined later and so did D&RGW, although in the latter case it might have been the result of a merger. Apparently AT&SF seriously considered continuing their own passenger service because they were proud of it, and did not trust Amtrak to maintain their high standards! However most companies were glad to 'get rid'.
 

Greenback

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I have done Empire Builder, South West Chief and the Cal Zeph and would say that the Cal Zeph has by far the best scenery,at least west of Denver, out of these 3. I am hoping to do the SP Sunset Route from San Antonio to LA next Spring.

I hoppe you let us know how it goes!

Which routes you go far can of course be influenced by which if any stop overs you want to make.

Exactly, I wanted to visit LA and Albuquerque, so I chose to take the Chief. I enjoyed it, but since then I've read and heard so much about the Zephyr, that I sort of wish I hadn't bothered and gone the other way instead!

When I travelled on Empire Builder in 2011 the dining car steward insisted that my travelling companion and I share a table with other passengers, even though the dining car was half empty, and even insisted that we had to sit side-by-side and not facing across the table.

I got the impression that the famed American hospitality doesn't really extend to Amtrak's dining cars: some of the staff were surly, impatient and downright rude. Thankfully, in the US you can make your displeasure quite clear by declining to leave a tip (which we did, even though it creates a very awkward moment).

On the other hand, the sleeping car attendant was superb throughout our journey. We gave her a generous tip and also wrote to Amtrak praising her.

One thing I found was that the staff, and the announcements both on train and at stations were not as welcoming as I had been expecting. They were certainly not as flowery or verbose as in the UK! There was a lot of rather blunt 'xxxx is not permitted at this time', which would, in this country, have dressed up to sound more like an apology than an instruction.

And I didn't once get told to have a nice day either!
 

ChiefPlanner

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In terms of punctuality - last trip Washington DC to NYC was over 50 late - reason - driver late into cab on departure and then stalled right over the station throat. Service recovery led to us following a string of local trains all the way. Stock was exactly that which we had in 1984 - basically , not impressed. Conductor very cagey about it all ..."when you are late on AMTRAK ,you are late" ...

Having said all that - great it is still running passenger trains ...
 

306024

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Did a small part of your circular tour this year from Houston to New Orleans, then on to Philadelphia via Atlanta. Scenery wise there isn't much to shout about, but that is more than made up for by the quirkiness of Amtrak.

Houston station is a single track with a passing loop and a small hut. A far cry from Union station which now forms part of the baseball stadium, the pitch is where the platforms used to be. My taxi driver couldn't find the 'new' station, good job I had a map. As he said, no demand for train travel in Houston (pop 2.1m).

The 9 hour journey to New Orleans is just a short hop, so I only visited the cafe car, but had the full dining experience on the 29 hour journey to Philly. I have to say the crew were all very good on the train from New Orleans, and took a pride in working for Amtrak. My dining companions were an interesting bunch, and had great amusement with my English accent.

Operationally we were the first train from New Orleans for four days due to the line to Atlanta being closed for engineering work. No rail replacement plane service. As a result there was freight everywhere, and on one occasion we had to shunt into a siding then reverse back onto the main line to allow one to pass. Timekeeping nevertheless was good until Washington, where changing to an electric loco for the last leg to New York took over an hour so we were 50 late into Philadelphia.

Most Amtrak travel is an adventure so just go and discover if you get the chance.
 

Hellfire

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When I travelled on Empire Builder in 2011 the dining car steward insisted that my travelling companion and I share a table with other passengers, even though the dining car was half empty, and even insisted that we had to sit side-by-side and not facing across the table.

I got the impression that the famed American hospitality doesn't really extend to Amtrak's dining cars: some of the staff were surly, impatient and downright rude. Thankfully, in the US you can make your displeasure quite clear by declining to leave a tip (which we did, even though it creates a very awkward moment).

Contrary to your experience we found that sharing a table with other passengers was one of the highlights of the trip. It was a real chance to talk to Americans in a relaxed and informal atmosphere which added greatly to the journey as far as we were concerned.

All the staff on our trip were welcoming and friendly. No complaints at all. I think when you are in a foreign country it pays to reach out a bit and make an effort.
 

Taunton

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Yes, at that time Southern, Rock Island and D&RGW declined to join Amtrak and continued to run their own passenger trains well into the 1970's. I think Rock Island eventually got out of the obligation by going bankrupt, Southern joined later and so did D&RGW, although in the latter case it might have been the result of a merger.
Rock Island's bankruptcy didn't impact their liability to run the passenger services - many US rail companies had been bankrupt, some multiple times, in the 20th century and the liability just carried on (note that in the US bankrupt companies are often able to continue and rebuild). There was a 5 year requirement of service after Amtrak was founded, for those who didn't join at the start, and when this was up the RI passenger services, entirely within Illinois by this time, were supported by the state. They ended about 1979 when the state support money was cancelled. The company, still legally bankrupt, was still operating at this time, it shut down some years afterwards, mainly due to a strike.
 
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Squaddie

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Contrary to your experience we found that sharing a table with other passengers was one of the highlights of the trip. It was a real chance to talk to Americans in a relaxed and informal atmosphere which added greatly to the journey as far as we were concerned.

All the staff on our trip were welcoming and friendly. No complaints at all. I think when you are in a foreign country it pays to reach out a bit and make an effort.
Sometimes we wanted to meet and talk to other passengers and sometimes we didn't: I think that's perfectly reasonable on a long train journey. Obviously, at times when the dining car was full we had no problem whatsoever with sharing a table - and yes, as you say, it was often great fun - but there were times when the staff seemed determined to lay and serve as few tables as possible and made everyone sit at one end of a mostly empty car. The tip they got from us reflected their willingness to accommodate our wishes (which is as it should be).
 

mac

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What did you think to the food? On the train from Washington to Chicago we had a full meal but it was not as good as when I was there about 5 years ago, do routes vary
 

Squaddie

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What did you think to the food? On the train from Washington to Chicago we had a full meal but it was not as good as when I was there about 5 years ago, do routes vary
The food was passable, although not nearly as good (or as plentiful) as you would find at a proper diner. Furthermore, some items on the menu were unavailable from the outset and by the end of the journey there was extremely limited choice.

It's starting to sound as though I didn't enjoy my trip across the USA but that couldn't be further from the truth - we both loved every moment of it (grumpy waiting staff notwithstanding). I wouldn't do it in coach class, though - the best bit was being able to sit at the window of our room (or lounge on the bed) with a coffee and/or beer and watch the midwest roll by. There was always something to look at and I didn't even as much as open any of the books I had packed.
 
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