Ronnie Biggs is dead.

[meridian2]

Yet again a railway forum thinking it's bigger than the whole audience of the UK venting their spleen about something 90% of the general population don't care about. 'Poor amateur production' is your opinion, that's all.

 

[Rugd1022]

Yet again a railway forum thinking it's bigger than the whole audience of the UK venting their spleen about something 90% of the general population don't care about. 'Poor amateur production' is your opinion, that's all.

I don't think we think like that on the whole Meridian2, it's just that it's annoying that production companies get things spot on in other period dramas but often fall down with the research and execution when it comes to railway related subject matter. Regarding the great train robbery, the production crew of 'Mrs.Biggs' managed to pull it off very well using the correct type of loco and stock on the East Lancs Railway... with a bit more gumption from those in charge of production, this week's two versions of it could have been equally as good on that front! It may have come down to money in the end I suppose, but it would have been nice had they used D335 on the East Lancs rather than 37 075 on the K&WV line...

Oh, and don't our opinions count too...?

 

[bb21]

Yet again a railway forum thinking it's bigger than the whole audience of the UK venting their spleen about something 90% of the general population don't care about. 'Poor amateur production' is your opinion, that's all.

Of course accuracy does not matter. :roll:

That is how untruths and mistakes become urban myths and then public misconceptions. Shoddy journalism is shoddy journalism. It's a matter of professionalism.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Of course accuracy does not matter. :roll:

That is how untruths and mistakes become urban myths and then public misconceptions. Shoddy journalism is shoddy journalism. It's a matter of professionalism.

Except making a TV drama isn't journalism.

 

[meridian2]

Of course accuracy does not matter. :roll:

That is how untruths and mistakes become urban myths and then public misconceptions. Shoddy journalism is shoddy journalism. It's a matter of professionalism.

This isn't journalism; this is a TV drama. What are you going on about?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I don't think we think like that on the whole Meridian2, it's just that it's annoying that production companies get things spot on in other period dramas but often fall down with the research and execution when it comes to railway related subject matter.

I suspect you just don't know as much about what life was like in whatever period the period drama was set in than you do about railways, so don't see the mistakes. I can assure you there are probably forums full of historians calling all sorts of dramas amateurish because that postage stamp design didn't start until June 1863 and this is meant to be set in May for example. It's just as pedantic as people on this thread, and just as pointless.

 

[ian1944]

I certainly don't mourn his death. On a wider front, I'd like to have seen Jack Mills and John Axon sharing the 4th plinth in Trafalgar Square.

 

[Bill EWS]

Shunt signals have different by-names used by the various private railways or 'Groups' of later times. Dummy & Dolly are the two best known ones. When I moved from the Scottish egion to the Western Region and also worked over the Midland, Southern and Eastern lines I learned a good number of different railway say/terms that I had never heard in Scotland.

 

[RPM]

Whilst I feel his passing doesn't need to be mourned by anyone other than his family and friends, I am puzzled by the vitriol poured on him from the railway community. He was nothing but a bit part player in the robbery. Why was there not this level of anger when Reynolds died?

 

[Whistlekiller]

Whilst I feel his passing doesn't need to be mourned by anyone other than his family and friends, I am puzzled by the vitriol poured on him from the railway community. He was nothing but a bit part player in the robbery. Why was there not this level of anger when Reynolds died?

I'd hazard a guess that with Reynolds it was because he didn't escape from prison and laugh his head off at the society that put him away, only returning to face the music years and years later when it selfishly suited his health.

Sorry I seem to have started a spat about the wrong way running. I was genuinely interested as to why it was portrayed that way thinking that they may well have done some research to have arrived at that conclusion.

As pointed out it's not poor journalism and I'd agree that it's only likely to bother the geeks (I have to include myself there as I spotted it). The viewing public at large really couldn't care less!

I enjoyed both programs. Very well made indeed and not spoilt for me in any way.

 

[meridian2]

Whilst I feel his passing doesn't need to be mourned by anyone other than his family and friends, I am puzzled by the vitriol poured on him from the railway community. He was nothing but a bit part player in the robbery. Why was there not this level of anger when Reynolds died?

What's more puzzling is why there are people that need to play devil's advocate about Biggs. He was a criminal, a thief and a thug. I mourn Jack Mills and the people affected by Biggs, and that makes Biggs fully deserving of any amount of vitriol.

 

[DarloRich]

Yet again a railway forum thinking it's bigger than the whole audience of the UK venting their spleen about something 90% of the general population don't care about.

This - for most real people this was a piece of televisual drama not an accurate recreation, minute by minute, of the robbery focusing in forensic detail on the operation of 1960 railway infrastructure or rolling stock.

 

[bb21]

Of course, in TV dramas things don't need to be accurate. Silly me. :roll:

Mistakes are mistakes. Funny that others are not allowed to criticise these mistakes in some people's eyes because it doesn't matter.

 

[Butts]

Of course, in TV dramas things don't need to be accurate. Silly me. :roll:

Mistakes are mistakes. Funny that others are not allowed to criticise these mistakes in some people's eyes because it doesn't matter.

I noticed a "non-railway" mistake ....

The Train was shown being loaded at Glasgow with Police overlooking the operation.

Resplendent upon their heads were "The English Bobby's helmet rather than the Scottish "Flat Cap"

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Of course, in TV dramas things don't need to be accurate. Silly me. :roll:

Of course they do. The storyline, events and characters need to be accurate in a drama such as this. You know, the bits that it they weren't accurate would actually affect the drama.

Whether or not the signal is on the ground or on the post, or whether the locomotive number is right does not materially change the story, events or characters.

 

[meridian2]

Of course, in TV dramas things don't need to be accurate. Silly me. :roll:

Mistakes are mistakes. Funny that others are not allowed to criticise these mistakes in some people's eyes because it doesn't matter.

It's not that they're not allowed to criticise, I'm just questioning why bother as you yourself have admitted they don't really matter.

It's merely nitpicking and it has no real basis on the credibility of the drama if 90% of your audience don't know the difference between a 'dolly' signal or a 'ground frame'.

 

[flymo]

It's merely nitpicking and it has no real basis on the credibility of the drama if 90% of your audience don't know the difference between a 'dolly' signal or a 'ground frame'.

Make that 99.999999999999999999%

Ye gads if this is what people are complaining about these days then let me off this planet please.

 

[bb21]

It's not that they're not allowed to criticise,

I refer you back to your original comment.

Yet again a railway forum thinking it's bigger than the whole audience of the UK venting their spleen about something 90% of the general population don't care about. 'Poor amateur production' is your opinion, that's all.

I am unsure what message you are trying to convey in that case.

I'm just questioning why bother as you yourself have admitted they don't really matter.

I said nothing of the sort.

I have no interest in whether they got it right or not. I have no interest in that programme, however if the producers couldn't bother to get facts right then in my opinion it is an attitude thing. "Oh, 99% of our audience aren't going to notice so we won't bother getting it right. Screw the 1%"

Of course I am not saying that it is what the producers thought, but that is a response to the justification some of you are putting forward.

It's merely nitpicking and it has no real basis on the credibility of the drama if 90% of your audience don't know the difference between a 'dolly' signal or a 'ground frame'.

Only if you don't notice the mistakes. You may not think it is important that they get it right. There are others who will notice it. It does not mean those who criticise the mistake are nitpicking.

Of course they do. The storyline, events and characters need to be accurate in a drama such as this. You know, the bits that it they weren't accurate would actually affect the drama.

But surely that is only your opinion on what affects the drama, is it not?

To some others (whoever they are), it does matter because the producers are getting basic things wrong.

I don't in fact expect producers to get things 100% correct all the time, however I don't consider it an acceptable excuse not to get things right simply because very few would notice it and the majority would be none-the-wiser. That is an attitude/professionalism thing. If they get things wrong, put the hands up and accept that they got it wrong. Who doesn't make mistakes? No need to accuse others of being pedantic and try and justify the mistakes.

 

[meridian2]

You are merely overstating your case, that is all. This is a TV drama based on a factual event. It does not therefore need to be wholly representative of the WHOLE facts. It is impossible to get it 100% accurate.
Stop making yourself look foolish by arrogantly thinking nitpicking by the railway community should be listened to and acted upon.That just leads me back to making my original point.

 

[jon0844]

I agree it doesn't have to be absolutely 100% accurate. And be happy it wasn't made in Hollywood, or you'd have probably discovered the train replaced with a passenger train and the robbers taking hostages, before being saved by Steven Seagal or Chuck Norris with every robber killed except Biggs that slipped away only to be caught later on by the CIA.

Actually that sounds pretty awesome.