Romford Engineering Work

[embers25]

This weekend I used the very busy 321's from Liverpool Street to Clacton. Passing through the engineering works between Ilford and Shenfield eastbound it was slow but without stops or incident. Westbound all trains were scheduled an extra minute stop at Chadwell Heath. On leaving Shenfield the westbound driver announced that due to engineering works we would be running the next 10 minutes with reduced lighting. Upon stopping at Chadwell heath the train was restarted and the the lights turned back up. Given this didn't happen eastbound (maybe as the westbound line is next to the possession site) I was just curious as to the reason for this as I've never known it before. Also westbound seemed to be less speed restricted.

 

[LAX54]

OHL work on the Up & Down Main early hours Sunday to eraly hours Monday.
There was "High Speed Coasting" in force, which ia ssume the reason for the dimmer lights

 

[306024]

That's it. Up and down main blocked for OHL work. Up electric isolated due to close proximity of the work. Up trains coast between Gidea Park and Crowlands neutral sections. More work this Sunday too. That is why Seven Kings, Goodmayes and Chadwell Heath were closed (use the TfL 86 bus) and there was a rail replacement bus fron Shenfield to Romford in the up direction only (with very smart looking Abellio double deckers!).

It did look odd seeing a 12 car 321 passing Gidea Park with pans down doing about 40 mph.

 

[embers25]

That's it. Up and down main blocked for OHL work. Up electric isolated due to close proximity of the work. Up trains coast between Gidea Park and Crowlands neutral sections. More work this Sunday too. That is why Seven Kings, Goodmayes and Chadwell Heath were closed (use the TfL 86 bus) and there was a rail replacement bus fron Shenfield to Romford in the up direction only (with very smart looking Abellio double deckers!).

It did look odd seeing a 12 car 321 passing Gidea Park with pans down doing about 40 mph.

That's really quite clever thinking on their part! What would happen if a train had to stop in that section for whatever reason?

Also is there a reason why they run 321's in place of the loco hauled and not 360's? I assumed it was to allow maintenance of the 360's?

 

[306024]

That's really quite clever thinking on their part! What would happen if a train had to stop in that section for whatever reason?

Also is there a reason why they run 321's in place of the loco hauled and not 360's? I assumed it was to allow maintenance of the 360's?

The origins of coasting on the GE come from a similar exercise at Hitchin some years back, the much maligned NXEA pushed for coasting rather than putting everyone on a bus, but it takes a while to get the benefit.

Before a train leaves Brentwood, the route must be clear to Chadwell Heath. This of course reduces capacity so Norwich trains don't come through, as they have fewer seats. Using only 321s on the Clacton line is because the 12 car trains call at Alresford and Great Bentley on a Sunday, which requires selective door operation that 360s don't have. Opportunity for additional maintenance on 360s is co-incidental.

There are contingency plans to get out of trouble if a train gets 'gapped' to use a Southern term, which involve stopping work on the main lines and re-energising the up electric. Extra time is built into the possession should this become necessary.

The GE overhead renewal scheme is getting to the more complicated bits, so newer ideas are tried to avoid buses where possible. Hope that explains a bit more.

 

[Alfie1014]

Excellent solution to keep the job going, anything's got to be better than being put on a bus. May have to take a trip out next weekend to sample the operation. Using Dusty Bins may also be because their lack of fancy train management systems are more forgiving than more modern stock such as 360s?

Only knowingly experienced coasting twice, once many years ago on the LTS on an up Tilbury service that ground to a halt near Stanford-le-Hope. The driver had noticed something amiss with the OLE ahead and stopped short. After consulting with the signaller we set back to SLH then started away again lowering the pan through the problem area continuing on our way once clear.

The other experience was only a few weeks ago in Hungary on a slow Budapest to Szombethely service that came to halt at a small wayside station that we weren't due to stop at. Leaning out of the window I could see the loco's pan down. After a short while a train came off of the single line in the other direction also with its pan down. Straightaway a diesel buffered up to the rear of our train and propelled us out of the station on to the running line and after a short while the driver of leccy put the pan up and the diesel dropped away. Not sure if it was planned or emergency working but it was quite smartly done, though the faffing about did make us 30" late getting to our final destination.

 

[carriageline]

I believe they did it on Thameslink near west hampstead last year, with a thunderbird loco on standby incase a train came to a stand. It's not a new thing and in the rule books!


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[91104]

I remember doing it at Hitchin a few years back with a class 91/DVT set and once manning a class 67 at Welwyn Garden City what was there to rescue anytrain that happened to get stranded in the dead section,they also stabled a Thunderbird at Huntingdon the other side for the same reason and I seem to remember chaos 2 weekends in a row as the FCC class 365s had some problem with the AWS being unable to be cancelled whilst they were coasting with the pan down and resulting in a brake application and the train coming to a stand in the dead section.

 

[embers25]

The origins of coasting on the GE come from a similar exercise at Hitchin some years back, the much maligned NXEA pushed for coasting rather than putting everyone on a bus, but it takes a while to get the benefit.

Before a train leaves Brentwood, the route must be clear to Chadwell Heath. This of course reduces capacity so Norwich trains don't come through, as they have fewer seats. Using only 321s on the Clacton line is because the 12 car trains call at Alresford and Great Bentley on a Sunday, which requires selective door operation that 360s don't have. Opportunity for additional maintenance on 360s is co-incidental.

There are contingency plans to get out of trouble if a train gets 'gapped' to use a Southern term, which involve stopping work on the main lines and re-energising the up electric. Extra time is built into the possession should this become necessary.

The GE overhead renewal scheme is getting to the more complicated bits, so newer ideas are tried to avoid buses where possible. Hope that explains a bit more.

Many thanks for that comprehensive explanation. Didn't realise 360's didn't have sdo. Also anything preventing buses is always good! People on board were a bit baffled by the Chadwell Heath stop and the lights but the driver did at least try to explain.

 

[Bald Rick]

I remember being in the meeting where this (and several other different methods) was first proposed for the GE. The project guys had to be persuaded to look into it, but credit to them they changed their opinion when they saw what was possible. Glad to see it has worked well.

 

[Taunton]

I seem to remember a Swiss/Italian border station (Domodossala?) with different overhead wire voltages where the inbound tracks had the wires stop short of the platforms and the incoming train coasted to a stop. The loco was pulled off by a diesel and then propelled back to under its own catenary.

The spectacular bit was that the diesel shunter didn't return the dead electric all the way, but after drawing it well forward it uncoupled, gave it a huge push up to about 40 mph, and then braked so the electric loco just coasted right back through the station to its own wires.

 

[PeterC]

I don't know how accurate the information was but I was told as a teenager that it was theoretically possible for a train to coast all the way from Brentwood Bank into Liverpool Street

 

[306024]

Class 309s would roll forever (well not quite) but I was told the same by a Clacton driver who knew them inside out.

 

[Class 170101]

Class 360s and 90s were never tested for coasting, only 321s hence why they are used.

Additionally with the Class 360s theer are more electtronics than a Class 321 so it is more sensitive to either a reduction in power on in this case no power at all.

 

[306024]

Yes 360s too complicated for this lark, keep it simple. All working well again today, at least when I travelled. 12 car Clacton trains very busy with the Norwich passengers as well. The 321 coasted well from Harold Wood to Chadwell Heath.

 

[Bishopstone]

Interesting thread.

What sort of speed are the units reaching before they start coasting, and how much of that drops away by Crowlands?

 

[306024]

There is a 40 mph permanent speed restriction on the up electric line through Gidea Park, but the speed only drops to about 30 mph by Chadwell Heath. The 321s do roll quite well.

 

[Class 170101]

Yes 360s too complicated for this lark, keep it simple. All working well again today, at least when I travelled. 12 car Clacton trains very busy with the Norwich passengers as well. The 321 coasted well from Harold Wood to Chadwell Heath.

We will see if its all working well at 04:00 tomorrow morning.

360s may be too complicated but those and similar trains are the future. Something will need to be done going forward to enable coasting of more technologically advanced trains otherwise there will be more rail replacement buses - punters won't like that.

 

[Bricktop]

We instigated the Coasting on Anglia to do inside wire runs on the GE 4 track open wire route. It was an idea from LNE (Hitchin) but they only did track work. On the Sunday of the Hitchin weekend we took a 3 line Isolation to do the OLE renewals. Hence why some think that along with Track work OLE renewals were done, they wasn't.
With issues around not working next to a Live line or near live equipment Coasting was a sensible solution as we have a natural 10ft along the 4 track open route of the GE Mainline. The all lines access was cancelled so we had to come up with a differant way of delivery. It wasn't the Project that struggled to adapt as we had to look at other ways of delivery but AGA made all the differance with their support. Trials were undertaken on 5 fri nights with trains running over the Up Electric / Down Main, dropping Pans at NS and overlaps. 321's were deemed to be the best trains to use as they lose hardly any air and a train will Coast for a long way, which people are now starting to realise. We have Coasted over 6 Weekends now and delivered 6 inside wire runs The longest Coasting being Ilford to Romford over the Down Main. With regards the taking of the Coasting line and Isolating is a bit detailed to go into as we also have Electrical Buffer Sections but yes we do have a method if a train gets stranded. We stop in a station to raise the pan on all ocassions for safety purposes
On the last night of the trials backin 2013 we left Shenfield Stn over the UEL and run down Ingrave bank to 18/51 structure. We dropped the pan and Coasted all the way to Stratford stn including going over the flyover at Ilford and lowering the speed through Gidea Park. If it had not been for a possession at Stratford L/End we would have comfortably got to the Street.
Cheers

 

[Bricktop]

Interesting thread.

What sort of speed are the units reaching before they start coasting, and how much of that drops away by Crowlands?

The pans are dropped at Line Speed, Over the UEL we lose hardly any speed over the Main line depending on distance no more than 15mph off line speed