Rolling stock ownership

[K_H]

Just trying to get my head round where the money goes when new trains are built - any help warmly received!

To take an example: the planned HST replacement. Am I right in thinking the government will pay Hitachi a certain amount to build the trains and then sell them to ROSCOs who will then lease them to TOCs? I understand Hitachi are going to build maintenance infrastructure for these trains as well, will they bill the government or the ROSCOs for the upkeep of the trains?

And presumably in the case of the nationalised ECML, the government-owned TOC will be hiring the rolling stock from a ROSCO, who themselves presumably paid the government for the stock in the first place?

Is it me or is it just money going round in circles?

 

[jopsuk]

Not entirely round in circles- there's loads of lawyers, accountants and other pen-pushers who'll be creaming plenty of it off.

 

[90019]

Not entirely round in circles

Ovals?

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I dont know if this is true but I think just a rumour,but the rumour is HSBC will be getting some and the other ROSCO's will receive a less majority then HSBCprobaly not true though ah!

zigzags?!

 

[90019]

I've got it! (And I'm determined not to lose it this time)

Here's my cash flow analysis of the situation:

 

[asylumxl]

Essentially, it was all set up for Thatcher's cronies to make a quick buck. That's why it's going in circles.

 

[BlythPower]

Think back to the early nineties when John Major ran the country. There was something of a recession going on. Not the ordinary kind of recession where working class people lose manufacturing jobs in the Midlands and North but the kind that the tories could never ignore - a middle class recession! Accountants, lawyers, bankers, management consultants and marketing people were losing their jobs in the South East. Something had to be done and fast! The outcome was, of course, the most ridiculously complicated privatisation ever, guaranteeing jobs for the chaps for decades to come. One company - British Rail - split into about 140 separate ones all with complex contractual relationships - genius!

Remember, whilst the Tories are idealogically opposed to using state money to prop up nationalised businesses they're totally committed to using taxpayer's money to subsidise the private sector (and they get the well-paid directorships in return...).

 

[jamesontheroad]

Does any TOC own it's own trains? I can only think of NIR in Northern Ireland who own all their stock...

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Does any TOC own it's own trains? I can only think of NIR in Northern Ireland who own all their stock...

I dont think any TOC owns there stock,but remeber northern Irelands railways IR are nationalised still so thats
why there stock is owned by there selves.

But for the rest of Irelands railways,there privatised i think but not to sure though,
Regards

 

[Stonesourscotty]

First Group own some 43's don't they? but they don't own all there stock.

 

[90019]

Does any TOC own it's own trains? I can only think of NIR in Northern Ireland who own all their stock...

FOC technically, but DBS own all the 60s IIRC.

 

[A60K]

But for the rest of Irelands railways,there privatised i think but not to sure though

They're not - IE in Ireland is government owned.

 

[merlodlliw]

They're not - IE in Ireland is government owned.

Correct,


Shareholder Information
Córas Iompair Éireann ("C I É"), as a Statutory Corporation, has no issued share capital or equity invested in the company. Hence, technically speaking, it does not have a shareholder as such. However, as the Irish Government is currently the sole owner of CIÉ, the Government's representatives are the Minister for Transport and his Department.

For operational purposes, C I É has three wholly owned subsidiary limited liability companies set up under the Companies Act as provided for in the Transport (Reorganisation of Córas Iompair Éireann) Act 1986. Each of these has issued and paid up share capital.

1.Iarnrod Eireann (Irish Rail)
2.Bus Eireann
3.Dublin Bus

 

[Broken Viking]

I dont know if this is true but I think just a rumour,but the rumour is HSBC will be getting some and the other ROSCO's will receive a less majority then HSBC...

Pardon me for asking, but what in the name of the Gods would the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Company want with a fistful of 395's?

Personally, if I was a banker (And I can be in certain respects! ) I'd be more interested in buying shares in whoever will be running the Olympic Javelin, rather than the OJ's rolling stock!

Zigzags?

Given British governmental policy nowadays, I would suggest that it's probabally closer to an Icosidodecadodecahedron... hock::razz:

 

[driver9000]

Pardon me for asking, but what in the name of the Gods would the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Company want with a fistful of 395's?

To make a shed load of cash leasing them out to companies who pay a fortune to them. We're talking 6 figure sums per year per set - even for BR era stock!

 

[90019]

Pardon me for asking, but what in the name of the Gods would the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Company want with a fistful of 395's?

Because HSBC Rail is one of the 3 main UK ROSCOs, and leasing trains earns them huge amounts of money.