Rolling stock after South Wales Valleys electrification

[D365]

Latest ive heard from within the company is that 357' a will be introducted

I read that too from someone. I know the new franchise might look at some extra units, but I don't think they're going to want to go through the horrors of a new fleet again. Should be relatively easy to tag on some Electrostars to the '116+140 377/8' batch, specced for compatibility with the 357s but otherwise reverting to the 100mph top speed (limited to 75mph) and the original cab as a '357/3'.

 

[jimm]

I'm sure nothing has been decided about electric rolling stock or the franchise map post-electrification.
The aborted GW franchise spec is in the bin and will come round again in 2016. The W&B franchise is up for respecification/reletting in 2018.
It's too early to be definite about anything except that the GW wires will go up and IEP will be coming in, both around 2017.
We don't even know the dates for Valleys/Swansea wiring yet.
DfT is known to want to "maximise utilisation of new electric routes".
Every DMU running under the wires is one less to cascade elsewhere.

Well according to this BBC report from January, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20943196 the wires to Swansea will be in place by 2018, though Network Rail were clearly a bit vague about the Valley Lines, saying a start will be in 2015, but with all the miles involved, putting a definite date on when various lines will be done at this stage may be asking a bit too much anyway.

 

[jonners03]

Well according to this BBC report from January, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20943196 the wires to Swansea will be in place by 2018, though Network Rail were clearly a bit vague about the Valley Lines, saying a start will be in 2015, but with all the miles involved, putting a definite date on when various lines will be done at this stage may be asking a bit too much anyway.

This is very unlike to happen as no ground work has started only resigns liking part of the Cardiff area resigns liking program

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This is very unlike to happen as no ground work has started only resigns liking part of the Cardiff area resigns liking program

I think your text-predictor has been too clever...
It probably doesn't encounter "resignalling" vey often.

 

[anthony263]

Having used them on a few occasions th eclass 357's are lovely units the bad point I find with them is the 3 + 2 seating which is ok for the local passengers traveling inside the London area but not for the longer distance passengers.

Still I wouldnt mind some class 357's in south wales although a 4 carriage unit might be overkill for some services unless they can be reduced to 3 carriage units. The spare carriages could perhaps be used to provide extra capacity in other units.

Also given their age the class 357's could certainly do a good 15-25 years in service in south wales compared to 5-10 years for the class 315's

 

[samuelmorris]

It's way too early for a fleet replacement on Thameside, the last of the units are barely over 10 years old, and as already stated, the fleet's introduction was fairly drawn out!

Additional stock is basically going to allow a large number of 8-car peak services to be expanded to 12-car. For that reason, it makes more sense if they work without incident in multiple with 357s. I see no reason why not, but it's been a long time since anything was built with that cab design, perhaps they may end up introducing additional units that look more like 376s? (but retaining plug doors). I also hear raising the line speed to 100mph is on the cards, but not sure where. Presumably Bromley-by-Bow to Leigh-on-Sea would make the most sense, can't see it serving any purpose elsewhere on the line.

As for the 3+2, it is tight, but the longest journey's about 40 miles (or 1 1/4 hours). I don't think it really justifies 2+2.

 

[Class172]

I hadn't heard about c2c getting new stock. What exactly is going on, is it just more 357s?

 

[D365]

I hadn't heard about c2c getting new stock. What exactly is going on, is it just more 357s?

Should be relatively easy to tag on some Electrostars to the '116+140 377/8' batch, specced for compatibility with the 357s but otherwise reverting to the 100mph top speed (limited to 75mph) and the original cab as a '357/3'.

Having used them on a few occasions th eclass 357's are lovely units the bad point I find with them is the 3 + 2 seating which is ok for the local passengers traveling inside the London area but not for the longer distance passengers.

Of which there aren't supposed to be too many on LTS.

Still I wouldnt mind some class 357s in south wales although a 4 carriage unit might be overkill for some services unless they can be reduced to 3 carriage units. The spare carriages could perhaps be used to provide extra capacity in other units.

Would be rather a waste to knock out carriages from a fleet which is (debatably) modern and still in production. 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' (or the version I've heard here: 'fix it till it is'). As the 315s are getting on in years, it wouldn't be such a waste... What else could one reasonably do with the carriages... And in 5-10 years, the Valleys can have shiny new stock alongside GN.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I hadn't heard about c2c getting new stock. What exactly is going on, is it just more 357s?

The 15-year-franchise ITT last year invited options for fleet expansion for extra services.
But the competition was cancelled just after the bids went in.
The current short 18-month extension doesn't include any new stock, but no doubt the plan will reappear when the franchise is rebid next year.
So just to recap c2c is not about to order new stock for the current franchise.

 

[HSTEd]

Its a pity we don't have more Class 323s.
That is a fine example of a what a late-BR era (possibly the latest possible?) commuter EMU can do.

Also it makes a cool noise.

 

[anthony263]

Its a pity we don't have more Class 323s.
That is a fine example of a what a late-BR era (possibly the latest possible?) commuter EMU can do.

Also it makes a cool noise.

Apart from the seats I find them to be great units which do the job they were built for pretty well.

The real shame is that there were not more of them built thanks to the government of the day imposing a 1000 day ban on ordering new rolling stock.

I wonder if Hunslet would still be around now if they had not gone under, certainly it would have been interesting as perhaps they could have come up with a unit whether that being dmu or emu which could have rivalled the turbostar

 

[northwichcat]

I understand the newly electrified Leeds routes were set to get new 323s instead cascaded 308s at one stage. However, with that never progressing as a new order it helped to result in Hunslet collapsing.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

323s were regarded as basket cases when they were first introduced.
The spent much of their early life parked up in sidings waiting to be fixed.
That did for Hunslet.
With no R&D around, it's a dead line anyway.

 

[D365]

323s were regarded as basket cases when they were first introduced.
The spent much of their early life parked up in sidings waiting to be fixed.
That did for Hunslet.
With no R&D around, it's a dead line anyway.

Is that why Ivo hates them so much? When electrified, 'Leeds Triangle' was supposed to receive 14 323s, but funds weren't available, meaning they had to go with 21 elderly ex-NSE 308s, shortened to 3-car units. Kinda lucky that it was the 16 100mph 333s as these have been extended from 3 to 4-cars. This foresight might not have existed or been at all possible with 323s, as by the time this demand would have been recognised, the type might likely have been out of production.

 

[jimm]

This is very unlike to happen as no ground work has started only resigns liking part of the Cardiff area resigns liking program

What is very unlikely to happen? They haven't even started to resignal Oxford (due in 2015), where electric trains are due to start in December 2016. On the other hand, preparations for foundations for overhead masts are under way along the Thames Valley, with some already in place at Reading, and overbridges are being rebuilt.

I believe the Port Talbot resignalling is due for completion in 2018, so that would tie in with Swansea electrics starting in 2018, and with electrifcation-linked work under way in the Thames Valley more than three years before electric services will begin there, why shouldn't they make a start on the Valley Lines in 2015?