Roadworks speed signs

[heart-of-wessex]

Hello all,

Can you legally go faster than the posted temporary speed limit roadworks signs when there is no works going on at all? By no works I mean literally nothing, no cones, diggers, fences, access points, workers, tools etc etc.

North of Chippenham on the A350 to the M4 junction it is a dual carriageway at the national speed limit. All the way to the M4 junction is tempoary 50mph limit signs, yet there is absolutely nothing about, the road is the same and untouched, and there is no work related items.

If you were caught speeding doing the normal 70mph that you can do on that road, could you argue that the reason you didn't do 50 is because there are no works at all so therefore you wouldn't be putting anyone in danger?

This only applies northbound too as there are no tempoary limits going south. There isn't any fixed cameras either.

I'd stick to the limit if there were cones, fencing, machinery etc but otherwise I can't see the point of doing a limit if theres nothing there...

 

[Warwick]

"Can you legally go faster....". No.
Third paragraph. No again.
Fifth paragraph. Go ahead but risk collecting three points and a £100 contribution to the Magistrate's ball on the way. "isn't" should read "aren't" but fortunately I'm not the grammar police.

 

[AM9]

A number in black on a white background surrounded by a red circle is a mandatory speed limit (in MPH). Why not check in the Highway Code. Whether you think that the speed limit should apply or not is irrelevant, breaking that speed limit can result in a prosecution.

 

[E_Reeves]

Are the signs there for upcoming works or previous works or for some other reason?

 

[najaB]

Can you legally go faster than the posted temporary speed limit roadworks signs when there is no works going on at all?

No. Next thread.

 

[jon0844]

Unless a sign has a time (I don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh, but believe some schools have different speed restrictions at different times of the day) or it's a variable board that adjusts then, as said, it's in force.

I've had instances where speed restrictions have been left on, presumably by mistake, after works have been completed and all the cones/signs removed (like rail, motorways will allow possession of lanes at certain times only - bar emergencies) so often it may be between 2200 and some time in the morning.

It is very frustrating to see 40 or 50mph and 'roadworks' on dot matrix signs when there isn't. With speed camera enforcement, you would have no defence sadly. That said, I suspect traffic police (remember them?) would probably turn a blind eye. I say probably, so it isn't a given.

 

[tony_mac]

It is very frustrating to see 40 or 50mph and 'roadworks' on dot matrix signs when there isn't. With speed camera enforcement, you would have no defence sadly.

Dot matrix signs are not mandatory speed limits (unless they are on a 'smart' motorway, in which case they will have a red circle around them.)

It may not be an offence, for example, if the traffic order regulating the speed limit has expired but they have left the signs out. It's very unlikely though.

 

[John Webb]

Have you tried looking at either the local County Council or Highways England Websites to see if they list the works and the details about them. It might also be a means of complaining about signs left out when they are no longer needed? Or is it possible there is a problem with the road surface and they are keeping speeds down to minimise the risk of further damage either to the road or to vehicles?

 

[jon0844]

Dot matrix signs are not mandatory speed limits (unless they are on a 'smart' motorway, in which case they will have a red circle around them.)

It may not be an offence, for example, if the traffic order regulating the speed limit has expired but they have left the signs out. It's very unlikely though.

Yes, this was the M25 with variable speed limits with red borders.

 

[Mojo]

There might be a defect or some other safety with the road which is the reason for the reduced speed limit, rather than the signs being there for roadworks.

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/sig...rary-mph-speed-restriction-sign-108346134.jpg
These type of speed limit signs are legally enforcable

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/images/recommended-speed-limit-sign.jpg
Whereas these are just guidance

 

[PeterC]

Yes, this was the M25 with variable speed limits with red borders.

In that case not only mandatory but well provided with speed cameras. (I don't know how many are active, I haven't tested it as I don't want the points)

 

[Mojo]

Having searched Google for A350 Chippenham Speed Limit; it seems as if there are lots of road works going on, some have already started and some commence tomorrow.

 

[MotCO]

In that case not only mandatory but well provided with speed cameras. (I don't know how many are active, I haven't tested it as I don't want the points)

I've certainly seen cameras flash - whether or not there was any 'film' in them is a different matter.

 

[edwin_m]

Some road works near me had speed limits with no obvious reason, but accompanied by signs saying "Incomplete barrier - speed limit for safety reasons".

Limits may also be applied if there are workers in the road, even if they are only inspecting or placing/removing cones. As somebody pointed out on the Paddington programme, working on the railway might be dangerous but at least there's no significant risk of a train swerving into the worksite.

 

[GB]

What about road works where there are speed restrictions but they also haven’t bothered to take down national speed limit signs through the reduced area? So you have a combination of reduced speed limit signs and national speed limit signs.

 

[Nighthawke]

I'd stick to the limit if there were cones, fencing, machinery etc but otherwise I can't see the point of doing a limit if theres nothing there...

The point is that there is a mandatory speed limit sign and you are deliberately ignoring it. Ignorance of basic road sign knowledge is no excuse!

If you are happy to do 70mph in a signed 50mph limit, presumably you are happy to exceed any other mandatory limit.

 

[cactustwirly]

The only time a speed limit isn't mandatory is when the number isn't in a circle.
This is only an advisory speed limit, and is usually found at tight corners & outside schools.
Other speed limits are mandatory.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

What about road works where there are speed restrictions but they also haven’t bothered to take down national speed limit signs through the reduced area? So you have a combination of reduced speed limit signs and national speed limit signs.

If two mandatory limit signs are mistakenly displayed at the same location, the lower one would apply.

 

[306024]

Good job train drivers don’t apply the same logic when approaching a temporary speed restriction.

Can’t really believe such a question is even being asked, but then judging by some of the driving standards occasionally witnessed perhaps I shouldn’t be so surprised.

 

[GB]

If two mandatory limit signs are mistakenly displayed at the same location, the lower one would apply.

They are not exactly in the same place..spaced randomly apart. So NSL, 50, NSL, NSL, 50, 50, NSL, 50, 50, 50, NSL etc all within the same section of coned off road works.

 

[edwin_m]

Normally the permanent signs are removed, turned sideways, sprayed over with grey paint etc.

Possibly the OP passed through when the road works were just being set up and before this (or any cones etc) had happened. Or conversely at the end of the work just after everything else had been taken away.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

National speed limit sign is still up. I was wondering if it was to do with advance roadworks as they are doing improvements to the A350 in the Chippenham area and there is work going on there with speed restrictions, but this section that just has 50 signs have been there since at least December 2017, and nothing has changed, the road and tarmac is the same, no cones have been added or removed in that time, but there was works right at the end at the M4 junction roundabout which was 30, and the works are complete and most the 30 signs have gone but a couple are still there.

The point is that there is a mandatory speed limit sign and you are deliberately ignoring it. Ignorance of basic road sign knowledge is no excuse!

If you are happy to do 70mph in a signed 50mph limit, presumably you are happy to exceed any other mandatory limit.

You are in your rights to assume, but I do stick to limits and I was going 50 in the section before that had cones and road works, only that section didn't seem much point in doing 50 in a non works zone considering the road surface was the same as it has been, so I did 60 and let everyone else overtake me. I still do 30 in a 30, 50 in a 50 etc etc...

 

[furnessvale]

Hello all,

Can you legally go faster than the posted temporary speed limit roadworks signs when there is no works going on at all? By no works I mean literally nothing, no cones, diggers, fences, access points, workers, tools etc etc.

Years ago, before the days of electronic signs, as a young police constable, I was expected to run across 3 lanes of live motorway, often at night in a blizzard carrying a full kerbstone on my shoulder to weight down temporary road closure signs following accidents etc.

Then someone asks a question like this!

 

[robbeech]

Despite a sign without a red circle around it not being mandatory you can still be prosecuted under the offender if driving without due care and attention / careless driving if appropriate. If you were to be involved in and accident and the speed was a factor then the speed restriction plays little part. Dangerous driving trucks them all.