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RMT Talks

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Merle Haggard

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But this pay deal includes Bands 5-8. essentially, if you are at the top of the pay range for that band, you will get a lump sum, rather than a pay increase.

Back long ago before I retired the maximum and minimum in the pay band went up by the pay increase percentage. - management ranges. Have they really not increased the maximum? That's a bit cheeky - if they do that at every pay increase it will mean that staff will hit the max sooner and sooner, in effect reducing the max to negate inflation.
 
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Railwayowl80

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Because clearly it's just WMT that haven't received the response from TSSA

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


I believe TSSA may have responded to some but not all TOCs, seems shambolic if so
Appreciate the reply but does that mean regardless if it’s one toc that hasn’t had a response or 5 no back pay can be processed until they have fully responded like can they start issue payback to just the tocs that have had results/response
Thanks
 

12LDA28C

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Appreciate the reply but does that mean regardless if it’s one toc that hasn’t had a response or 5 no back pay can be processed until they have fully responded like can they start issue payback to just the tocs that have had results/response
Thanks

I wouldn't worry too much. Whether it's November or not, you'll get your back pay soon enough.
 

Toby268

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Seems to be a lot of people repetitively saying “but the drivers got back pay this month” as if it means the RMT members should have had back pay by now.

Aslef got an agreement and were balloted well before RMT members. Not everything is a conspiracy. They also have a lot less members at most TOCs. Give it time, it’ll come sooner than you think.

Need to remember it can be quite complex. People changing grades during the last few years. Overtime, RDW. All needs to be figured out by payroll
 

SCDR_WMR

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Seems to be a lot of people repetitively saying “but the drivers got back pay this month” as if it means the RMT members should have had back pay by now.

Aslef got an agreement and were balloted well before RMT members. Not everything is a conspiracy. They also have a lot less members at most TOCs. Give it time, it’ll come sooner than you think.

Need to remember it can be quite complex. People changing grades during the last few years. Overtime, RDW. All needs to be figured out by payroll
Didn't the ASLEF ballot close only a week before the RMT one given it was open for a month being a postal rather than digital ballot?

I think dragging it out until December is not really on though given it was accepted in September.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Appreciate the reply but does that mean regardless if it’s one toc that hasn’t had a response or 5 no back pay can be processed until they have fully responded like can they start issue payback to just the tocs that have had results/response
Thanks
I would imagine that TOCs will work individually on payments, certainly different TOCs are paying it out differently. If your company has received formal notification from all relevant unions then it's free to make payments I would imagine.
 

scrapy

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Didn't the ASLEF ballot close only a week before the RMT one given it was open for a month being a postal rather than digital ballot?
Yes, ASLEF do generally represent one grade though. RMT represent several within a company. RMT also represent some workers within companies that have had a national living wage increase within the year also, so these calculations will be more complex.

Regardless.of when the ballots were done or the offers were made, it seems to me quite a long timeframe for payments though. You would have thought most of the calculations will be done by computer software and this could have been prepared for a long time ago. With the figures simply being tweaked automatically depending on what the offer was.
 

SCDR_WMR

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Yes, ASLEF do generally represent one grade though. RMT represent several within a company. RMT also represent some workers within companies that have had a national living wage increase within the year also, so these calculations will be more complex.

Regardless.of when the ballots were done or the offers were made, it seems to me quite a long timeframe for payments though. You would have thought most of the calculations will be done by computer software and this could have been prepared for a long time ago. With the figures simply being tweaked automatically depending on what the offer was.
I agree. Happy if it's all paid in November, not if it's split or paid later than that.
 

Towers

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I agree. Happy if it's all paid in November, not if it's split or paid later than that.
There will be many staff within each business who will need substantially more complex calculations than just a percentage of their basic salary. Overtime payments at various differing rates, enhancements for all manner of additional duties, and so on. It’s a complicated and time consuming business, which is why many firms are likely to split it with the more simple enhancement on basic salary paid first, and then the percentage for overtime etc paid later. It simply takes longer to work it all out.
 

ValleyLines142

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On the GWR front

9th October 2024



Dear RMT Member,



DEFEND JOBS, PAY & CONDITIONS - GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY



Following the announcement of the referendum result - where members voted overwhelmingly to accept the Department for Transports proposals - correspondence has now been received from Great Western Railway.



The Union has been advised that the company has confirmed that the offer on pay, made by the DfT on behalf of Great Western Railway, will be honoured in full. Steps are now being taken by the company to implement the pay award in the November run.



The company also envisage that backpay for all basic pay will be made in the November cycle. However, due to the complexity and volume of work, backpay for overtime, enhancements or anything that has been missed will be made in the December run. These awards will be backdated to the pay anniversary date for the respective years.



I will continue to update you on developments.

Yours sincerely,
 

SCDR_WMR

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There will be many staff within each business who will need substantially more complex calculations than just a percentage of their basic salary. Overtime payments at various differing rates, enhancements for all manner of additional duties, and so on. It’s a complicated and time consuming business, which is why many firms are likely to split it with the more simple enhancement on basic salary paid first, and then the percentage for overtime etc paid later. It simply takes longer to work it all out.
It took me around 25-30 minutes to load up each payslip, enter hours for each category and apply the relevant equation. I did that for every pay slip from the relevant anniversary. I could easily take the template and add code to pull each employees numbers, therefore I'd expect a payroll department to be able to do the same.

Also, payroll paid out 3 years worth of complex backpay to ASLEF during a single period.
 

KNN

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It's probably worth pointing out that ASLEF and RMT have both made statements about TOCs not employing enough staff.

It isn't only frontline roles which have been squeezed, payroll departments aren't exactly over filled with highly motivated staff waiting for extra work to come along.
 

HLE

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Enjoying seeing the posts from the armchair payroll experts. I'd be very surprised if any TOC is able to just export the data to a spreadsheet and apply the increase to generate the backpay. It'll likely be done, one employee at a time. Not a 5 minute job. I'd have started the calcs the minute the aslef deal came out, giving almost 2 months to sort it out.

I've done payroll for years in a past career, I'll stick to driving trains anyday. I doubt payroll have had much sleep in the last couple of months.

One thing RMT members should remember is their deal was announced at least a month(?) after our deal. That'll be why it's in the next payroll.
 

SCDR_WMR

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One thing RMT members should remember is their deal was announced at least a month(?) after our deal. That'll be why it's in the next payroll.
I don't think anyone has an issue with backpay being paid during the next pay cycle. Some TOCs have stated payments will be made over 2 payments where drivers where made over 1 in some TOCs. My query would be how would drivers be paid 3 years pay in a single payment yet conductors due 2 years payment be paid over 2 months/periods be seen as needing to accept that as fine
 

12LDA28C

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I don't think anyone has an issue with backpay being paid during the next pay cycle. Some TOCs have stated payments will be made over 2 payments where drivers where made over 1 in some TOCs. My query would be how would drivers be paid 3 years pay in a single payment yet conductors due 2 years payment be paid over 2 months/periods be seen as needing to accept that as fine

Maybe because ASLEF insisted on this, and RMT didn't? Guards/conductors not happy with the situation would be better off speaking directly to their union reps instead of moaning on an online forum.
 

Stephen42

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I don't think anyone has an issue with backpay being paid during the next pay cycle. Some TOCs have stated payments will be made over 2 payments where drivers where made over 1 in some TOCs. My query would be how would drivers be paid 3 years pay in a single payment yet conductors due 2 years payment be paid over 2 months/periods be seen as needing to accept that as fine
Payroll teams are sized for the amount of work they normally need to do and will have limited capacity for extra requests. There are also immovable deadlines when payroll needs to be finalised which depending on organisation can be weeks before people receive the money.

It's likely a timing issue. If it's say two weeks elapsed work to implement, check and process the backpay then it's possible one group's deal was agreed two weeks before the deadline and one was agreed where the two weeks would straddle it meaning the easiest part could make it before and the rest would need to wait until the next pay period. The alternative would be deferring everything to the subsequent pay period which you probably wouldn't be thrilled about either. Another possibility is the timeline was agreed for the drivers deal and that reduced capacity to progress the RMT deal that followed shortly after.

Either way it's not favouritism and there's little that can be done to change it. Payroll teams do not have an easy life and any mistakes could lead to threats of industrial action or money loss so they need to announce a feasible timetable and stick to it.
 

muz379

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I don't think anyone has an issue with backpay being paid during the next pay cycle. Some TOCs have stated payments will be made over 2 payments where drivers where made over 1 in some TOCs. My query would be how would drivers be paid 3 years pay in a single payment yet conductors due 2 years payment be paid over 2 months/periods be seen as needing to accept that as fine
Dont forget that RMT/TSSA/Unite offer will cover multiple grades, many of them with different elements of pay that will need backpay calculating on , not just conductors .

At least splitting it over two pay period gets people some of their backpay sooner .
 

Towers

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I don't think anyone has an issue with backpay being paid during the next pay cycle. Some TOCs have stated payments will be made over 2 payments where drivers where made over 1 in some TOCs. My query would be how would drivers be paid 3 years pay in a single payment yet conductors due 2 years payment be paid over 2 months/periods be seen as needing to accept that as fine
Unless someone really desperately needs the money, in which case there will presumably be issues at play beyond just a payrise, I don’t really see why it should be an issue? What does it matter, as long as the amount is duly paid?
 

185

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Sorry to bump this thread, but a number of former staff have been in contact in relation to one shoddy operator refusing to pay them back pay. As I understand it:

Pay deal
- Year 1 was RDG-led and no back pay is due for those who left despite working in year 1. (which I feel should face argument in court)

Pay deal
- Year 2 and 3 were DfT authorised and specifically, back pay is due to those who worked during years 2 and 3 but then left.


Two members of staff whilst employed actually voted to accept Pay deal year 1, then left weeks later, and the company's HR Director refused to pay them. For this HR Director to refuse years two and three is concerning, but I wonder, has anyone seen the text from government showing the deal? Facebook's Railway Family group showed the RMT's text, however I've not seen anything from the DfT.
 
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