RMT Talks

[leewilko91]

TSSA is yet to put the deal to members I believe was suggested earlier?

Basically it would appear the RMT wants the pay deal to be implemented with backpay before the result, and it comes down to whether the TOCs accept that the TSSA result is almost certainly going to be yes.

One wonders what would happen if their referendum was no?

I honestly have no idea what the answer is and I can’t find a definitive one. Someone in the forum said they asked someone associated with TSSA and they said they had balloted but I’m not sure. In the video Mick Lynch said both have agreed to it even though the email we had yesterday said differently

 

[Towers]

TSSA is yet to put the deal to members I believe was suggested earlier?

Basically it would appear the RMT wants the pay deal to be implemented with backpay before the result, and it comes down to whether the TOCs accept that the TSSA result is almost certainly going to be yes.

One wonders what would happen if their referendum was no?

His frustration - and no doubt that of his membership - does seem understandable; TSSA representation must be a drop in the ocean compared to the frontline ranks of the RMT. Could there be an element of the smaller union ‘flexing its muscles’, I wonder?

 

[whoosh]

Surely if the TSSA is part of the 'Colective Bargaining' for a group of roles, then their official acceptance (and ballot of members accepting the offer), should be waited for?

Even if everyone else wants to forge ahead with what's been offered, there is a process to follow - one that was fought hard for by unions?

 

[leewilko91]

Surely if the TSSA is part of the 'Colective Bargaining' for a group of roles, then their official acceptance (and ballot of members accepting the offer), should be waited for?

Even if everyone else wants to forge ahead with what's been offered, there is a process to follow - one that was fought hard for by unions?

I’d imagine so as for our 22/23 pay deal TSSA had to wait until RMT agreed their deal before their backpay was paid to them. I was just trying to get clarification if anyone is or knows of a TSSA member who can advise whether they have been balloted and if they have when it closed. As I’ve seen/heard they didn’t get balloted and then seen/heard that they have been balloted and voted for it so I don’t have a clue currently

 

[jimjim]

They got the assurances on the pension that they were looking for in terms of active staff. Not so for staff that have retired already but as they won't get a vote in the pay rise they say it can go forward to the membership. Therefore ballot opened today. Closes next Friday.

I don't think Unite have agreed it yet so even when TSSA vote comes back it won't be resolved yet.

TSSA were arguably the most successful of the unions. They had a 24hr strike which cancelled all services for two days at some tocs. Not even ASLEF managed to do that.

 

[KM1991]

They got the assurances on the pension that they were looking for in terms of active staff. Not so for staff that have retired already but as they won't get a vote in the pay rise they say it can go forward to the membership. Therefore ballot opened today. Closes next Friday.

I don't think Unite have agreed it yet so even when TSSA vote comes back it won't be resolved yet.

TSSA were arguably the most successful of the unions. They had a 24hr strike which cancelled all services for two days at some tocs. Not even ASLEF managed to do that.

They voted to accept the deal that would have closed ticket offices. Clown union.

In relation to Unite, how many members on the railway do they even have across the country?

 

[Railwayowl80]

I don’t get what’s happening i walked into work last night to say a unite union rep is coming up to the speak to anyone in unite to vote on the pay deal didn’t say anything about when the close date was to vote

 

[Mag_seven]

They got the assurances on the pension that they were looking for in terms of active staff.

What assurances were those?

 

[Towers]

These last few posts have been most enlightening; I’ve watched previous proceedings with interest and I have to say I was completely oblivious to the fact that the headline RMT ballots were somehow subject to approval by other unions. I’m still slightly baffled as to what the link is and how that works, but every day is a school day!

 

[Hugo3000]

'However, the implementation may be delayed as the TSSA has yet to commence a referendum on the offer while they seek a pay deal for managers where they have recognition.'

Would these be the managers who worked trains on strike days whilst RMT members were on picket lines seeking a fair pay rise?

 

[jon0844]

I've been told TSSA has issued an e-vote for non managers which closes October 4th. So looks like they're not going to wait.

 

[leewilko91]

I've been told TSSA has issued an e-vote for non managers which closes October 4th. So looks like they're not going to wait.

A colleague at work earlier told me this too. Said they’re voting now and closes next week. Not sure what that does in terms of when they will issue the back pay but at my workplace they managed to get it all done and sorted for our 22/23 backpay within 2 weeks

 

[High Dyke]

A colleague at work earlier told me this too. Said they’re voting now and closes next week. Not sure what that does in terms of when they will issue the back pay but at my workplace they managed to get it all done and sorted for our 22/23 backpay within 2 weeks

According to Network Rail management an advance payment, provided the offer is accepted by 27 September, will be made on the 6 October. However, the main pay award and backpay isn't due until December.

There's absolutely no mention of RMT members having to wait for other unions within the collective bargaining agreement to decide. Unfortunately, that's one of those things.

The main bugbear of many will be the fact it takes so long to pay out on the agreed award. Just as bizarre, talks with Network Rail are scheduled to commence in October for the 2025 pay submission.

 

[Kipperthecat]

I will seek the implementation of this pay deal and ask for backpay to be issued as soon as possible. I will write to the companies to advise them of this result and press your company to deal with the matter. However, the implementation may be delayed as the TSSA has yet to commence a referendum on the offer while they seek a pay deal for managers where they have recognition.

Only the first sentence was mentioned in the email to Network Rail members, so either the rest doesn’t apply or the RMT have been very economical with the truth … I hope it is the former, as it isn’t a good look to be withholding important information, especially when that information is known and given to others. Unity is strength … apparently !

 

[jon0844]

The Network Rail deal is different and not dependent on another union?

TSSA represents rail staff and some managers and my understanding is that TSSA is conducting an e-vote for members that aren't managers, so the rail staff deal can be signed off and people paid. Managers will then be dealt with separately later.

The TSSA vote ends October 4th so the result will be available almost immediately, and then the TOCs can proceed. However, it seems the RMT has asked if the TOCs can consider accepting the deal before the TSSA result, which seems unlikely just in case TSSA members all decide to vote no...

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Only the first sentence was mentioned in the email to Network Rail members, so either the rest doesn’t apply or the RMT have been very economical with the truth … I hope it is the former, as it isn’t a good look to be withholding important information, especially when that information is known and given to others. Unity is strength … apparently !

TSSA has nothing to do with the NR deal so no point putting that in the email to NR staff. Not withholding anything, just giving the correct info to the relevant people

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2024 ==

The Network Rail deal is different and not dependent on another union?

TSSA represents rail staff and some managers and my understanding is that TSSA is conducting an e-vote for members that aren't managers, so the rail staff deal can be signed off and people paid. Managers will then be dealt with separately later.

The TSSA vote ends October 4th so the result will be available almost immediately, and then the TOCs can proceed. However, it seems the RMT has asked if the TOCs can consider accepting the deal before the TSSA result, which seems unlikely just in case TSSA members all decide to vote no...

Our top dog has basically said they're working on paying RMT as soon as TSSA result is received. So expecting a positive result for sure. Glad nobody is looking to drag this out

 

[Railwayowl80]

When is TSSA results likely to be none feel like someone mention it but can’t find it

 

[Tractor2018]

People can live in then past and quote outdated demands as much as they like but RPI is not and will not be used for pay settlements in the railways industry ever again in my opinion. The fact that it is still used by a small number of companies to continue to fleece the customer does not contradict my views in earlier posts. Just because it has been used in the past, does not mean that it is still the right metric to use especially as it has been discredited by economists and the like who now use the CPI or CPIH when discussing inflation.

"My opinion", "my view". And that is all.

You said it's a dead metric. It's been pointed out to you, I don't know how many times, it's fact that it's not dead........in the rail industry, and elsewhere.

I don't have any energy left to keep going round in these circles with you. I'll leave you to your thoughts........or opinion, or view.

 

[plebb11]

When is TSSA results likely to be none feel like someone mention it but can’t find it

4th october

 

[Bald Rick]

TSSA has nothing to do with the NR deal so no point putting that in the email to NR staff. Not withholding anything, just giving the correct info to the relevant people

TSSA had everything to do with the NR deal, as they are in the same bargaining group as RMT (and Unite) for the deal that was agreed today.

 

[Railwayowl80]

4th october

Thanks

 

[dodecahedron67]

Had an email today saying basic back pay & increase from October’s pay packet, Overtime back pay & arrears from November pay packet

 

[43066]

Had an email today saying basic back pay & increase from October’s pay packet, Overtime back pay & arrears from November pay packet

The dates for what you get when will vary by TOC, and their individual payroll departments, with NR being different again.

What you’ve described is how my TOC are doing it, albeit I speak as an ASLEF member. So three decent pay cheques to look forward to, with holiday uplift pay landing in December.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

TSSA had everything to do with the NR deal, as they are in the same bargaining group as RMT (and Unite) for the deal that was agreed today.

I stand corrected! What roles do TSSA look after at NR? Pretty much only the managers are TSSA at my place.

 

[Railwayowl80]

Had an email today saying basic back pay & increase from October’s pay packet, Overtime back pay & arrears from November pay packet

Is this for the pay offer Network Rail?

 

[dodecahedron67]

Is this for the pay offer Network Rail?

No, guards

 

[muz379]

I stand corrected! What roles do TSSA look after at NR? Pretty much only the managers are TSSA at my place.

In ops I know that SSM's & MOM's are part of joint TSSA/RMT Recognition .

I dont know if conrol is also Joint or just TSSA . And I think ECRO's are also joint .

 

[High Dyke]

In ops I know that SSM's & MOM's are part of joint TSSA/RMT Recognition .

I dont know if conrol is also Joint or just TSSA . And I think ECRO's are also joint .

• Band 1-4 staff and Controllers - TSSA
• Supervisory Management - RMT/TSSA
• Supervisory Staff - RMT/TSSA
• Signallers (inc Crossing Keepers) - RMT
• Fault Controllers - RMT/TSSA
• ECRO staff - RMT/TSSA/Unite

In maintenance roles most are RMT, with some joint recognition, or sole recognition by one union, depending on the particular function.

Information taken from the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

[Bald Rick]

• Band 1-4 staff and Controllers - TSSA
• Supervisory Management - RMT/TSSA
• Supervisory Staff - RMT/TSSA
• Signallers (inc Crossing Keepers) - RMT
• Fault Controllers - RMT/TSSA
• ECRO staff - RMT/TSSA/Unite

In maintenance roles most are RMT, with some joint recognition, or sole recognition by one union, depending on the particular function.

Information taken from the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

That’s Ops.

Also TSSA represent many in maintnenance (as you say) and Bands 5-8, plus all the station teams, and some other roles too.

 

[RogueOne]

Are there any further updates on what the TSSA are doing for management grades?

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