RMT Talks

[1D54]

What would be the point in setting with ASLEF only to have RMT going out on strike again? Surely the government aren't so inept as to risk such a scenario! Starmer would have been well aware of the backlash even without the scrapping of the fuel payments to some of society being brought in to it. None of it makes sense.

 

[dk1]

What would be the point in setting with ASLEF only to have RMT going out on strike again? Surely the government aren't so inept as to risk such a scenario! Starmer would have been well aware of the backlash even without the scrapping of the fuel payments to some of society being brought in to it. None of it makes sense.

I’m expecting the RMT offer to be similar to ours. These things just take time and it will all be back dated.

 

[father_jack]

The media might not see it like that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2024 ==

But you said it not the media....

 

[Marcel7179]

Probably just a few weeks until the media’s moved on from the winter fuel allowance cuts.

Smart guy

 

[fishwomp]

The transport secretary has time to meet her Ukrainian counterpart to pledge support though! Absolutely ridiculous

Probably to find out how they run a reliable railway in spite of being in a warzone.. if they could send some help to run Cross Country.

 

[Moonshot]

I’m expecting the RMT offer to be similar to ours. These things just take time and it will all be back dated.

i hope you are right.....because this time next week ASLEF will announce the ballot results. Almost certain to be YES. And then its just a case of which week in October or November the money owed to drivers ( which will involve some significant funds ) lands in bank accounts

 

[greyman42]

The transport secretary has time to meet her Ukrainian counterpart to pledge support though! Absolutely ridiculous

It would be disastrous for the government if they were already seen to be dropping their support for the Ukrainians.

 

[Royal351]

Our Ref: BR6/0001



12th September 2024




Dear RMT Member



RATES OF PAY & CONDITIONS OF SERVICE 2024 - NETWORK RAIL



A meeting with Network Rail is now scheduled for this Monday 16th September where we will be seeking a new and improved offer.



As soon as any proposals are received, they will be placed before your National Executive Committee for consideration.



I will update you on all further developments as soon as your NEC has considered the matter.

 

[greyman42]

But you said it not the media....

Not sure what you mean.

Probably just a few weeks until the media’s moved on from the winter fuel allowance cuts.

As the saying goes, "A week is a long time in politics" but i think the winter fuel payments issue may go on for longer.

 

[dk1]

i hope you are right.....because this time next week ASLEF will announce the ballot results. Almost certain to be YES. And then its just a case of which week in October or November the money owed to drivers ( which will involve some significant funds ) lands in bank accounts

From what I understand the money is all ring fenced and readily available so won’t be an issue.

 

[greyman42]

From what I understand the money is all ring fenced and readily available so won’t be an issue.

The money may well be there but i think the governments concern is how the public and the media react.

 

[dk1]

The money may well be there but i think the governments concern is how the public and the media react.

No point them worrying about things like that. Damage has been done with the pensioner thing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2024 ==

If we get it then the RMT will have to also. Going to get messy again otherwise which they have said openly will hurt the economy. That appears their priority.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It aint easy being in government is it?

 

[dk1]

It aint easy being in government is it?

Never

 

[DJP78]

It aint easy being in government is it?

Rather them than me. Either borrow and be castigated or balance the books and still be castigated

I reckon RMT offer to land soon. RMT deal is vastly more complex owing to multiple grades etc. I’m sure it’s just the finer details being ironed out, which is to be expected.

ASLEF had to endure 30 months of being completely ignored. At least RMT and Labour are talking and further meetings are scheduled. Relations appear cordial and calm. No reason to assume anything other than a deal to follow shortly.

 

[father_jack]

14.7% or whatever it adds up to over 5 years is "hefty" ?

The media might not see it like that.

But you said it not the media....

Not sure what you mean.

I await your answer to my first post above with your own answer.

 

[Lewisham2221]

14.7% or whatever it adds up to over 5 years is "hefty" ?

The 5 years is irrelevant to the "optics" - ie. How it is likely to look the majority of the public, via the media.

Yes, there are people who understand the finer details, but it would almost certainly be overwhelmingly portrayed as "Government awards rail staff 15% pay rise whilst pensioners freeze to death"

 

[43066]

The 5 years is irrelevant to the "optics" - ie. How it is likely to look the majority of the public, via the media.

Yes, there are people who understand the finer details, but it would almost certainly be overwhelmingly portrayed as "Government awards rail staff 15% pay rise whilst pensioners freeze to death"

As the communication posted above states meetings are continuing, so it doesn’t sound like that’s necessarily the issue. Perhaps more down to it being more complex than the ASLEF side, as @DarloRich suggested. Best to keep the faith and hang fire for now!

The winter fuel allowance withdrawal has previously been blamed on asylum seekers, benefits claimants etc. by the Dail Mail, so most sensible people will be able to see that it’s nonsensical to now scapegoat railway staff, and the “bad publicity” will already have been priced in. Anecdotally quite a few people I’ve spoken to - including some pensioners who get it but don’t need it - have long believed the winter fuel allowance should be means tested.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2024 ==

The money may well be there but i think the governments concern is how the public and the media react.

It’s always risky to assume the public at large aligns with one’s own views, or those of particular sections of the media.

 

[DMckduck]

The 5 years is irrelevant to the "optics" - ie. How it is likely to look the majority of the public, via the media.

Yes, there are people who understand the finer details, but it would almost certainly be overwhelmingly portrayed as "Government awards rail staff 15% pay rise whilst pensioners freeze to death"

With not a care in the world for said rail staff who are also only just over the breadline.

Does every monetary policy in this country have to only have a benefit to pensioners.

Funnily enough if the government want consumers to spend, they are going to need the money to do so.

 

[jon0844]

The 5 years is irrelevant to the "optics" - ie. How it is likely to look the majority of the public, via the media.

Yes, there are people who understand the finer details, but it would almost certainly be overwhelmingly portrayed as "Government awards rail staff 15% pay rise whilst pensioners freeze to death"

There are numerous memes and newspaper cartoons that quite literally state train drivers are getting the money from pensioners. My Facebook is full of people referring to train drivers (in a few rare instances they mention junior doctors too, but they seem to get a pass) as being the sole reason for the removal of the winter fuel allowance. As you can imagine, these comments are usually followed up with 'they only have to press a button' or 'let's make trains driverless' type comment.

And now there's a scanned image of a letter rejecting someone's application for the benefit (from August 24th I recall) and it seems as if people are implying that it's a letter to them and that they've been rejected - although surely if you've been rejected then it means you're getting more money than most.

It's little surprise that it's people who voted Tory or Reform that are pushing this narrative strongly to undermine the PM (you can tell by their avatars or other posts), and we could all see it coming.

 

[exbrel]

With not a care in the world for said rail staff who are also only just over the breadline.

Does every monetary policy in this country have to only have a benefit to pensioners

with regards to your first sentence, are you serious?

as to the second, being one no not every thing, but having worked 50yrs, and payed tax and NI for them 50yrs i had that silly idea i would be looked after for the rest of my time, but apparently not under "caring labour"...

 

[43066]

with regards to your first sentence, are you serious?

as to the second, being one no not every thing, but having worked 50yrs, and payed tax and NI for them 50yrs i had that silly idea i would be looked after for the rest of my time, but apparently not under "caring labour"...

This is a commonly held view, but it is a fallacy. When you were working it wasn’t your own retirement you were paying for, it was that of the cohort above you. The current working generation, in addition to funding the state pension for current retirees, have to deal with much higher housing costs than they did, as well as a later retirement age, and almost certainly less generous benefits when they get there.

As a pensioner you will have benefited from the triple lock, insulating you from the inflation the working population has had to contend with for the last few years. The proposal is means testing of the winter fuel allowance, not withdrawal, so if you no longer qualify for it presumably you’re well off enough not to need it.

 

[DarloRich]

The winter fuel allowance withdrawal has previously been blamed on asylum seekers, benefits claimants etc. by the Dail Mail, so most sensible people will be able to see that it’s nonsensical to now scapegoat railway staff, and the “bad publicity” will already have been priced in. Anecdotally quite a few people I’ve spoken to - including some pensioners who get it but don’t need it - have long believed the winter fuel allowance should be means tested.

There was some Tory whopper on the socials yesterday explicitly linking a pay rise for rich drivers to the reduction in winter fuel payments.

Also to be blunt: sorting out a pay deal for RMT is not the biggest issue the government is facing. I know that is hard to hear but bigger fish and all that................

(To state the obvious which you must do here: I am not saying this dispute is unimportant and does not need resolution quickly)

 

[exbrel]

This is a commonly held view, but it is a fallacy. When you were working it wasn’t your own retirement you were paying for, it was that of the cohort above you. The current working generation, in addition to funding the state pension for current retirees, have to deal with much higher housing costs than they did, as well as a later retirement age, and almost certainly less generous benefits when they get there.

As a pensioner you will have benefited from the triple lock, insulating you from the inflation the working population has had to contend with for the last few years. The proposal is means testing of the winter fuel allowance, not withdrawal, so if you no longer qualify for it presumably you’re well off enough not to need it.

yes that is true, but things were not all rosey either back then, and think on what we lose now you present day workers wont have either. As regards the triple lock, yes thats a safe guarding bonus, but with the tax threshold not being increased any increase we get, go's
and our pension in most peoples cases cannot be increased by a part time job... oh and as for qualifing for the winter fuel, your not a rich pensioner if you don't qualify...

 

[GRALISTAIR]

ASLEF had to endure 30 months of being completely ignored. At least RMT and Labour are talking and further meetings are scheduled. Relations appear cordial and calm. No reason to assume anything other than a deal to follow shortly.

Yes. Frustrating to some possibly, but I see all positives like you.

 

[greyman42]

But you said it not the media....

When and what did i say regarding it "not the media"?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2024 ==

14.7% or whatever it adds up to over 5 years is "hefty" ?

See post 377.

 

[kkong]

As regards the triple lock, yes thats a safe guarding bonus, but with the tax threshold not being increased any increase we get, go's

You do realise that you would only pay tax (at 20%) on any income above the personal allowance of £12,570 ?

So if your income including pension becomes £12,670, you'd only pay £20 tax on the £100 income above the threshold and you'd therefore receive £12,650 net.

So your increase you get doesn't "go".

There does seem to be an astonishing number of people who don't understand how tax rates and allowances work.

 

[lordbusiness]

A full Railway pension plus state pension will easily put you in the bracket for income tax.

Assuming that tax brackets don't change conceivably into the 40% bracket.

Also rumours that there are plans to tax the (currently) tax free lump sum on retirement.

 

[father_jack]

When and what did i say regarding it "not the media"?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2024 ==


See post 377.

I was asking you did you think the 14.7% rise over 5 years was "hefty".

It's a yes/no.

This is not Newsnight. I am not Jon Snow and you are not Michael Howerd.

 

[fishwomp]

It's a yes/no.

Surely, that would be an oecumenical matter?

This is not Newsnight. I am not Jon Snow and you are not Michael Howerd.

Fwiw, it was Jeremy Paxman in that one.