RMT strikes announced

[Bletchleyite]

They're actually asking for the government/DfT to give the TOCs and Network Rail management the authority to give pay deals.

That neither will nor should happen. Would you let someone else without financial or other beneficial interest in the deal negotiate on your behalf? The TOCs could just say "right, 20% and no efficiency improvements", no skin off their nose nor money out of their profits.

What needs to happen is that the DfT, the paymaster, needs to sit down and negotiate themselves.

 

[O L Leigh]

That neither will nor should happen. Would you let someone else without financial or other beneficial interest in the deal negotiate on your behalf? The TOCs could just say "right, 20% and no efficiency improvements", no skin off their nose nor money out of their profits.

What needs to happen is that the DfT, the paymaster, needs to sit down and negotiate themselves.

It was always the case before. It’s only really been recently where the Government has started micromanaging TOC financial business in this way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was always the case before. It’s only really been recently where the Government has started micromanaging TOC financial business in this way.

It wasn't always the case before. Pre COVID TOCs were paid based on their bid. If they gave a generous pay settlement, it came out of their profit margin, so it was genuinely their decision.

Now they basically get cost plus - the taxpayer will pay the full cost of the increase.

This doesn't mean I think there shouldn't be one, but it is the DfT who should be negotiating a national, all TOC pay deal, as they're paying for it. The TOCs should just give them input on viable efficiency gains.

 

[O L Leigh]

It wasn't always the case before. Pre COVID TOCs were paid based on their bid. If they gave a generous pay settlement, it came out of their profit margin, so it was genuinely their decision.

Now they basically get cost plus - the taxpayer will pay the full cost of the increase.

This doesn't mean I think there shouldn't be one, but it is the DfT who should be negotiating a national, all TOC pay deal, as they're paying for it. The TOCs should just give them input on viable efficiency gains.

Then maybe it needs pointing out to the Whitehall mandarins who keep saying that it’s nothing to do with them.

 

[High Dyke]

I do wonder if the amount of engineering works means it’s a bit pointless to be striking at Christmas anyway as the impact will be minimal.

The point of calling strikes is to try and get the employer to cancel them by making a better offer. Stepping up the ante is entirely appropriate.

Unfortunately, Network Rail seem hell-bent on pushing through their changes, according to this article. (My bold in the text below)

Network Rail maintenance jobs to be cut due to lack of work | New Civil Engineer

Speaking at the Rail Industry Association Annual Conference on Thursday, Haines said that Network Rail will cut 1,850 maintenance jobs. "What we've

www.newcivilengineer.com

Network Rail's planned cuts to maintenance workers' jobs will go ahead as there isn’t enough work for them to do, according to chief executive Andrew Haines.
Speaking at the Rail Industry Association Annual Conference on Thursday, Haines said that Network Rail will cut 1,850 maintenance jobs.

"What we've identified is that we have this maintenance that doesn't need doing," he said.

“I spent nine years as a safety regulator in aviation industry and they embraced reliability-based maintenance in a way that we still haven't in infrastructure. We see a real opportunity in avoiding unnecessary work.”

Reliability-based maintenance is a concept of maintenance forward planning, with successful implementation leading to increases in cost effectiveness and reliability.

Haines added that Network Rail wants to seize a further opportunity to optimise the maintenance teams it has, to work more efficiently and to avoid giving workers contracts with hours that cannot be guaranteed.

The overetime ban will cause more chaos that the strikes IMHO........

Something I've said all along.

At a guess, many were quite probably lulled into a sense of security by the hitherto quite measured and careful action taken so far. The leadership have now thrown caution to the wind and upped the stakes massively.

Hardly surprising, when the employer goads staff with empty promises.

One thing Mick Lynch doesn’t do is rant and rave..

Agreed. The calm manner in which he's put over the main points of this dispute, despite some sloppy and vindictive journalism, has helped the cause. Other TU leaders are now taking his lead forward when dealing with the press.

 

[Christmas]

It wasn't always the case before. Pre COVID TOCs were paid based on their bid. If they gave a generous pay settlement, it came out of their profit margin, so it was genuinely their decision.

Now they basically get cost plus - the taxpayer will pay the full cost of the increase.

This doesn't mean I think there shouldn't be one, but it is the DfT who should be negotiating a national, all TOC pay deal, as they're paying for it. The TOCs should just give them input on viable efficiency gains.

So what's the point of Steve Montgomerie and his Rail Delivery Group being involved with the negotiations?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Then maybe it needs pointing out to the Whitehall mandarins who keep saying that it’s nothing to do with them.

I completely agree, because it absolutely IS to do with them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2022 ==

So what's the point of Steve Montgomerie and his Rail Delivery Group being involved with the negotiations?

Goodness only knows.

 

[dctraindriver]

To be honest, when you see Mick Lynch ranting and raving on just about every breakfast television and evening talk show in his somewhat resentful manner, it's no surprise popularity isn't high.

In your opinion, hardly surprising as you’re anti union. I haven’t really seen this ranting you mention. I’ve seen him handle questions attempting to rile him as you’d expect from certain aspects of the media; and from reading many articles about how he has handled this the consensus appears positive for him.

 

[Ashley Hill]

You could, you know, go to work and get paid.

Just a suggestion.

And lose friendship and respect from colleagues. Nor does the company think anymore of you if you did blackleg.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

In your opinion, hardly surprising as you’re anti union. I haven’t really seen this ranting you mention. I’ve seen him handle questions attempting to rile him as you’d expect from certain aspects of the media; and from reading many articles about how he has handled this the consensus appears positive for him.

Maybe I'm thinking of the other one then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2022 ==

And lose friendship and respect from colleagues.

Which is contemptible bullying behaviour from said colleagues, that are fully grown adults.

 

[Dave91131]

Which undermines everything we have been fighting for, you know

It won't affect Xmas pay but Jan and Feb also. 2 of the toughest months anyway. Alot of us thought we were quite close to a deal when the last round was called off tbh, I really hope this escalation forces it through now cos its quite a shocking upscaling and I don't think it was expected

I don't disagree it would undermine what you are fighting for.

But it really isn't difficult - you have 2 choices; strike and forego pay, or go to work and get paid.

You are seemingly choosing the former, and hence the consequences that go with it. So please, with respect, don't come on a public forum playing the "I'm going to struggle, please feel sorry for me" card when a) you are voluntarily withdrawing your labour, and b) you have mentioned upthread you have managed losing circa 3 days pay per month in recent months. You can't be that hard up!

For the record I couldn't give 2 hoots if there are strikes are not, I'm not impacted one bit by them. But seriously, complaining you'll struggle financially whilst voluntarily choosing not to work - surely you can see those 2 things don't go hand in hand.

 

[PaulMc7]

And lose friendship and respect from colleagues. Nor does the company think anymore of you if you did blackleg.

If you lose friendship and respect for wanting to have money to pay your bills and feed your family you don't need their friendship and respect.

 

[dctraindriver]

Maybe I'm thinking of the other one then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2022 ==


Which is contemptible bullying behaviour from said colleagues, that are fully grown adults.

Whose the other one?

 

[Ashley Hill]

Which is contemptible bullying behaviour from said colleagues, that are fully grown adults.

You’ve never been on strike have you. It can be quite an emotive subject for those involved.

 

[Cowley]

Right folks. We’ve done this plenty of times before and it always ends up leaving a bad taste in the mouth. Let’s give ourselves a break and lock this for now.

Thanks for your contributions but an executive decision has been taken.