It's worth noting that while I don't necccesarily agree with it that's exactly what the government are doing. They are using higher rates of National Insurance Contributions on both workers and employers, higher rates of Corporation Tax on employers and a lower allowance on Income Tax for everyone to claw money back. Indeed no other advanced economy is raising the tax burden similarly with how the Conservatives are deciding to do here at the moment.
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RMT statement discussion.
- Thread starter modernrail
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If anything , getting furloughed in 2020 on 80% wages then doing as many did and going out and getting a job that pays more than the missing 20% would have helped put some away for a rainy day and the rising cost of living today .
Well our salaries keep being talked about so why not?! Mental health on the railway is also a big problem.
The fact remains working from home has been a choice many GPs have made and the result has been poorer quality care. It’s still next to impossible to get appointments at my local surgery. I don’t mean to single out GPs in particular as they’re just one example and this kind of things has happened in many industries, but someone pointing at rail-staff for the brief period of spare from home is a bit rich.
There’s also no need to be patronising. I’ve spent years working outside the railway myself.
It’s the usual tired left wing trope of putting anything that’s bad about the NHS down to not enough funding rather than acknowledging that, as a model, it is broken, deeply inefficient and unfit for purpose. GPs earnings have ballooned over the last couple of years despite also being funded by the public sector and the care offered being substandard! It will never change because it’s a sacred cow, the population seem to think banging pots is the solution, so no politician will dare take it on.
And of course train drivers on £70k are the whipping boy… It’s also ironic that, once again, posters who are left wing and pro spending other peoples’ money in other areas, suddenly turn into conservative fiscal hawks as soon as pay on the railway is mentioned… Again revealing that resentment of train crew is what really motivates their musings on here
Really? So you haven't noticed that lots of dentists (including my own), due to finding issues, have stopped doing any NHS work.
O L Leigh
Established Member
Are we having this discussion again...? This is getting to be the new DOO argument.
It would appear that railstaff are having to pay for their own industry three ways. Firstly through pay freezes, secondly through greater productivity and thirdly through increases to the tax burden. TOCs are failing to engage with their staff, even if just to explain that their hands have been tied by the DfT, and morale, which was already low, has now sunk through the floor. I fail to see how that make us any sort of special case for further persecution.
I don't particularly care what happened during the pandemic, nor how rail compares to other industries. I turn up to work when rostered and do my employer's bidding until it's time to go home. That the public occasionally gets poor service is largely not the fault of the staff but of the way that the service has been planned and organised. I also feel it necessary to call-out the bullsh*t line about staff actions inevitably leading to the reduction of the industry as a short-term and highly alarmist view.
Everybody is feeling the financial pinch at the moment, no matter what they do or where they work. Cost of living increases affect us all irrespective of our station or earning potential, and I'm sure that everyone everywhere is looking at ways of securing themselves financially. With the current removal of rest-day working it is hard to top-up income, and so railstaff are looking towards the basic salary and exploring ways of getting an increase. I see no problem with this. As I've said before, railstaff through their unions are very in-tune with their employment rights. That others elsewhere may be meekly accepting of their situation does not mean that railstaff also should be.
It would appear that railstaff are having to pay for their own industry three ways. Firstly through pay freezes, secondly through greater productivity and thirdly through increases to the tax burden. TOCs are failing to engage with their staff, even if just to explain that their hands have been tied by the DfT, and morale, which was already low, has now sunk through the floor. I fail to see how that make us any sort of special case for further persecution.
I don't particularly care what happened during the pandemic, nor how rail compares to other industries. I turn up to work when rostered and do my employer's bidding until it's time to go home. That the public occasionally gets poor service is largely not the fault of the staff but of the way that the service has been planned and organised. I also feel it necessary to call-out the bullsh*t line about staff actions inevitably leading to the reduction of the industry as a short-term and highly alarmist view.
Everybody is feeling the financial pinch at the moment, no matter what they do or where they work. Cost of living increases affect us all irrespective of our station or earning potential, and I'm sure that everyone everywhere is looking at ways of securing themselves financially. With the current removal of rest-day working it is hard to top-up income, and so railstaff are looking towards the basic salary and exploring ways of getting an increase. I see no problem with this. As I've said before, railstaff through their unions are very in-tune with their employment rights. That others elsewhere may be meekly accepting of their situation does not mean that railstaff also should be.
Andypandy1968
Member
Can't be very stressful sat at home for the last couple of years talking to patients on the phone. My heart bleeds for those poor underpaid GPs
Elecman
Established Member
The railway companies aren’t too big to fail as Jarvis and a couple of other privatised industry companies failures testify
dctraindriver
Member
- Joined
- 9 Jan 2017
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- 615
My GP friend has been run ragged. His marriage has fallen apart because of his workload. His mental health has taken a bit of a battering. He’s not the only one struggling. Media reporting has a lot to be ashamed of.
The operator of last resort steps in before the passenger TOCs fail.
Arguably the failure of Railtrack and subsequent state bailout is actually evidence of that they are. Carillon and Jarvis were secondary failures whose collapse did cause disruption but they weren't necccesarily in key management roles.
Elecman
Established Member
Less than Zero
Indeed - the Secretary of State has statutory obligations to ensure continuity of service which means that effectively there's always a layer of protection on that side.
Elecman
Established Member
Absolutely I have several GP friends male and female who are absolutely worn out and struggling with thier mental and physical health after working 14-16 hour days, and putting up with the constant complaints from patients driven by the press and thier inaccurate reporting. In some cases I’ve heard of from them I’d have told the patient to find a new GP by removing then from the practice lists, they however just carry on.
I suppose it's recognition that there's no economic point in trying to disrupt commuters any more, just go after leisure travellers.
Probably the one day a week that the majority don't like working either.
nedchester
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 May 2008
- Messages
- 2,093
Of course if the Government bring in minimum service levels as they promised in their manifesto……..
Like their other promises that they kept?
This isn't just a forum for those who work on the railway.
However, more importanly, why shouldn't the public express views on salaries that are dependent upon large amounts of taxation funding?
There's plenty of public debate about pay levels in fully private sector businesses. Surely those should be strong public scrutiny of pay levels that rely on pubic money. That's called accountability.
bramling
Veteran Member
No problem being seen at my dentist for some time now (in my own experience, which is all I can speak for), for both NHS and private. GP on the other hand is a completely different matter - they are as much use as a chocolate teapot, and there’s a lot of disquiet locally about it.
But thank you NHS, you’re amazing.
Mintona
Established Member
I believe the likelihood of anybody working for the railway getting a payrise this year or next, and probably the year after that, to be around 0, and I think the unions need to step very carefully about what action they take going forwards.
nedchester
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 May 2008
- Messages
- 2,093
It could be a very popular policy for a populist Prime MinisterLike their other promises that they kept?
Presumably by that measure it should actually be the membership who need to be careful what they vote for, although once the potential for action is put forward by the Union, a vote against action would appear to give the wrong message about accepting the DfT / employer position. Difficult.
bramling
Veteran Member
It will be interesting to see how all this reconciles with the likelihood of an election in two years time, when this government will need to come crawling back to people.
Discount meals may have been very lovely back in August 2020, but increasing numbers of people are not looking favourably on how wisely our tax has been spent.
I don’t really think the unions are the biggest issue here, to be honest. If the government can’t or won’t keep rail industry pay competitive, simple reality is they — or more to the point all of us as users — are going to be on the receiving end of continuing staff shortages, and more than likely a decline in the calibre of joining staff.
For anyone who uses rail, which presumably many here do, there’s an element of be careful what one wishes for.
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Never going to be *that* popular. Rail is an irrelevance to a substantial proportion of the population. Directly at least, many people benefit indirectly from rail even if they don’t know it, for example through reduced road congestion or increased availability of car parking spaces in town / city centres, for example.
The other aspect to staff pay is that it’s still fairly insignificant compared to money which is blown away on some elements of infrastructure work. £3.5 million for a new footbridge at Royston, for example, meanwhile how much was wasted on the 442 debacle?
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