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RMT report about Trainline

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embers25

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What's worse than the RMT report with its many errors is that several RMT members have taken to X to repost this rubbish and also stated passengers should instead by tickets from the guard on board, even in penalty fare areas.
The RMT should get its own members in order first and call out and stop them giving wrong advice and rejecting valid tickets as that is a MUCH bigger issue.
 
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35B

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It’s a press release put out by a trade union - there’s no reason anyone should regard it as gospel or as definitive source of information.
It's more than a press release - it links to a "report" which purports to be an analysis.

The report is solely focused on disparaging online purchasing, and pretending that in person ticket purchasing is always a better option. It then uses Trainline as a scapegoat, misrepresenting the way that agency sales have always been part of the travel industry, and presenting a totally one sided view of the impact of online purchases. It then compounds this by linguistic sleight of hand saying that the majoirty of those interviewed have encountered issues with passengers who've purchased through Trainline, but nowhere analysing what those issues are, or how they've arisen.

If I belonged to a union that produced such a weak piece of research, I'd be embarassed and ashamed - then worried about what it said about their ability to protect my job.
 

Haywain

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If I belonged to a union that produced such a weak piece of research, I'd be embarassed and ashamed - then worried about what it said about their ability to protect my job.
I think it is highly unlikely that any member of RMT will be conflating those two issues. RMT is very good at protecting jobs, even for those who find the politics of the union leadership rather unpalatable.
 

TUC

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I think it is highly unlikely that any member of RMT will be conflating those two issues. RMT is very good at protecting jobs, even for those who find the politics of the union leadership rather unpalatable.
It's not to do with the politics of the union. It's to do with their competence and ethics in terms of the quality and content of the report.
 

Haywain

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It's to do with their competence and ethics in terms of the quality and content of the report.
I don't think that will bother more than a very small number of their members. Most won't even be aware of it.
 

Kite159

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What's worse than the RMT report with its many errors is that several RMT members have taken to X to repost this rubbish and also stated passengers should instead by tickets from the guard on board, even in penalty fare areas.
The RMT should get its own members in order first and call out and stop them giving wrong advice and rejecting valid tickets as that is a MUCH bigger issue.
I saw that tweet from the northern guard based in the north west. Great advice until you run into a RPI. As I'm sure 'a random guard on the interweb said I could buy on board' won't wash
 

35B

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I think it is highly unlikely that any member of RMT will be conflating those two issues. RMT is very good at protecting jobs, even for those who find the politics of the union leadership rather unpalatable.
Then I suggest that ordinary members of RMT might want to pay more attention to what's being said in their name. As I said, if I were a member, I would be concerned - because if those are the arguments, I'd be worried that I'd be lost at the start.
 

Haywain

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Then I suggest that ordinary members of RMT might want to pay more attention to what's being said in their name. As I said, if I were a member, I would be concerned - because if those are the arguments, I'd be worried that I'd be lost at the start.
I have been a member of a trade union for much of my working life, and i have never worried about what the union says about political matters or other matters concerning my industry. Membership has been about the services the union provides to me as an individual, should I need them. I think that is similar reasoning to other people apart from a few activists. But ultiomately, if you are not an RMT member, I can't really understand why you are so bothered about what RMT members should think about it. You are entitled to disagree with the RMT on this, and I disagree with them on this, but don't put it on the members.
 

redreni

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I have been a member of a trade union for much of my working life, and i have never worried about what the union says about political matters or other matters concerning my industry. Membership has been about the services the union provides to me as an individual, should I need them. I think that is similar reasoning to other people apart from a few activists. But ultiomately, if you are not an RMT member, I can't really understand why you are so bothered about what RMT members should think about it. You are entitled to disagree with the RMT on this, and I disagree with them on this, but don't put it on the members.
I broadly agree.

Much as I would like it to be, campaigning isn't about being right. The quality of the research is terrible, but that's really neither here nor there.

Bottom line is some of RMT's members' jobs depend on there being demand for walk-up tickets at ticket offices or (where permitted) on-board purchases. It's not just the commission; it's the future job prospects for railway staff who sell tickets that depends on the 8% market share (or whatever it is) that ticket offices still have (or had at the time of the recent push to close ticket offices, anyway) holding up or ideally increasing. Why anyone would be surprised that they run campaigns against online retailers I can't begin to imagine?

They also seem to take the view that having a single online ticket retailer would be better for their members. That's not something I am keen on. I can see why they think it's in their members' interests, though, because (a) one online retailer might be easier for ticket offices to compete with than the dozens of online retailers we have now and (b) it would be much easier to unionise the GBR online ticket retailer's workforce.

I do think they would do well to brief their members who work in ticket offices that another attempt to close ticket offices is likely to come sooner or later, and consequently it is very important to maintain the highest standards of quality and service and to keep customers coming back!
 

RJ

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When I was working on the frontline we were encouraged to provide feedback to the pricing managers and the retail systems managers, and it was still happening when I was in the latter role up to a couple of years ago. I'm sure that those in similar roles in your TOC would be pleased to hear your concerns.

It can feel like pestering people who have more important things to deal with when feeding stuff back. One thing I would raise is when fares were clearly missing from the database, which is something that can take in excess of 10 years to be addressed and cause customers to be charged inconsistent fares depending on what workaround each individual finds. It’s a lot easier to keep one’s head down.

Anomalous fares in the passenger’s favour however tend to be rectified rapidly if they are known about. I’ve got a whole list of them which have been in the system for years, presumably as they’ve stayed under the radar.

I did have some good experiences though. A report for missing fares priced by a different TOC was sorted promptly. A more technical matter arose from a customer who came to the ticket offices complaining that a Super Off Peak ticket was no longer valid on their usual mid-morning train. It took me about 30 seconds to deduce that the timetable had changed, speeding that train up and that the logic behind the restriction code in question was based on the old train times, so that journey was actually broken in the planners. I did bundle up this information and handed it to the relevant pricing manager, who did get it fixed quickly.

And I do make use of the information in the iKb, in my capacity as a ticket office clerk, to get these matters resolved. I presume that’s why it’s there.
 
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bunnahabhain

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Can you provide an example of such an itinerary and screenshots please?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I've seen it plenty of times.
Liverpool to Manchester Oxford road AP single
Manchester Oxford Road to Manchester Piccadilly SDS

You don't need the MCO-MAN SDS because the AP single is valid to Manchester Stations!
 

Mcr Warrior

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I've seen it plenty of times.
Liverpool to Manchester Oxford road AP single
Manchester Oxford Road to Manchester Piccadilly SDS

You don't need the MCO-MAN SDS because the AP single is valid to Manchester Stations!
Not necessarily. What if the accompanying reservation (or counted place) for the Advance Single is only from Liverpool Lime Street just to Manchester Oxford Road?
 

bunnahabhain

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Not necessarily. What if the accompanying reservation (or counted place) for the Advance Single is only from Liverpool Lime Street just to Manchester Oxford Road?
That isn't what is displayed when you check the ticket. The ticket itself is valid to Manchester Stations.
 

Mcr Warrior

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That isn't what is displayed when you check the ticket. The ticket itself is valid to Manchester Stations.
I would say that the Advance single ticket is only valid as far as the destination that the accompanying reservation or counted place actually says. So, Manchester Oxford Road not Manchester Piccadilly in the example you've mentioned. Different matter if it's an Off Peak or Anytime Single. Happy to be corrected if not actually the case.
 

OscarH

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That isn't what is displayed when you check the ticket. The ticket itself is valid to Manchester Stations.
Without a reservation beyond Oxford Road, it'd only be valid onwards on a non-reservable train, which would be a struggle in 2024. As for why the reservation was only made to Oxford Road, that's usually because of weird and wonderful yield management by the TOC, so again, not in the retailers control.
 

TUC

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I broadly agree.

Much as I would like it to be, campaigning isn't about being right. The quality of the research is terrible, but that's really neither here nor there.
Part of successful campaigning is very much about being right. At work we take notice when a campaigning group issues a well argued report whereas when one is full of inaccuracies we're much more likely to think 'they don't even know what they're talking about'.
 

redreni

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Part of successful campaigning is very much about being right. At work we take notice when a campaigning group issues a well argued report whereas when one is full of inaccuracies we're much more likely to think 'they don't even know what they're talking about'.
I'm glad to hear it, but responsiveness to well-argued reports by campaign groups might well be a point of difference between DfT and wherever you work, though.
 

Horizon22

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This is quite poor. I can see why the natural assumption might be that Trainline maintain and are responsible for more bad data than they are in reality, if there's no discussion of how modern retailing actually works with frontline staff when they begin their roles.

It's not even remotely touched on at the gateline level of training.
 

yorkie

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I've seen it plenty of times.
Liverpool to Manchester Oxford road AP single
Manchester Oxford Road to Manchester Piccadilly SDS

You don't need the MCO-MAN SDS because the AP single is valid to Manchester Stations!
Without a reservation beyond Oxford Road, it'd only be valid onwards on a non-reservable train, which would be a struggle in 2024. As for why the reservation was only made to Oxford Road, that's usually because of weird and wonderful yield management by the TOC, so again, not in the retailers control.
Yes without seeing the exact itinerary, it's difficult to be certain what's going on, but it may not be Trainline's fault.

If anyone can provide an example for a future journey where it's doing something that may not be correct, we can take a look.

For sure Trainline has it's faults ; it doesn't have such good split ticketing as we do, and I am not a fan of the dumbing down of the user interface to make it less obvious what you are getting, but much of the criticism aimed at Trainline from RMT is very inaccurate.
 
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