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RMT dispute on Merseyrail
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Well the TOC can view it as an opportunity.
If the times have changed such that guards should all be trained paramedics then this cost can be folded into franchise negotiations so as to become a profit centre in and of itself. Everyone wins, including the guards who now become trained paramedics.
theironroad
Established Member
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Trained paramedics administer drugs, inject people, and do all sorts of other medical interventions which are highly and specialised procedures.
I want to see a guard on every train and they should have improved first aid training that is regularly refreshed but having guards trained as full paramedics is not required.
323235
Established Member
Yes but the DfT still agree an allocation of funding with Merseytravel for Merseyrail, which will take into account any government policy changes for new trains. In 2014-15 Merseyrail got a 12.4p per Km subsidy from the Government according to a paper on the internet.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
While I don't agree with the proposal (I would suggest instead the same level that applies to the likes of outdoor activity instructors, which is a 2 day course every 3 years) that isn't so relevant to traincrew, because the NHS severely underpays paramedics, while traincrew (largely because of the strength of the Unions) are reasonably paid for the job they do.
Which is the exact reason the majority of TOC'S stopped giving guards first aid training a few years ago.. so that the first aid argument cannot come in to the DOO conversation...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If that is true it is absolutely disgraceful.
Guards trained as paramedics? Don't be ridiculous.
Citation needed.
Ex guard for a certain TOC currently starting dispute about DOO. We're all stripped of first aid qualification and told we were responsible people where in an emergency would just hope for a first aid trained person on board and relay the required information to the emergency services.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm quite hard line on First Aid provision. I think it should actually be a legal requirement for all customer-facing staff[1] in all businesses, of whatever kind, to have a basic First Aid at Word one day course current (within 3 years) unless it would not be reasonable for them to do so due to a disability. (And not many disabilities would make it unreasonable, as someone who can't carry out a given task can always tell someone else what to do).
I also feel schools should dedicate one day to First Aid training for every child every year. It would save many, many lives.
[1] Any staff who, in the normal course of their duties, would come into contact with any person not an employee or contractor of their employer, unless also a business with a statutory requirement for on-site provision covering all persons normally present. The way Scouting defines it, for what it's worth, is that at all activities there must always be immediate access to a qualified First Aider.
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Agreed 100%.. I've always had a valid first aid qualification since being about 13 so a lot of stuff I can and have comfortably dealt with.. the thought of a guard on a train not being able to do anything, and not because it's their fault, sickens me. But I'm adamant that this was only done so that the argument of needing a first aider on board can't raise its head at any point. Shocking thing is the union never said a word about it when quite frankly they could have used this as a huge warning to people.
Did all of your guard colleagues have first aid training? If not were those who did receive additional payments in their salary? If extra payments were received did these get taken away when stripped of the qualification? Did the TOC explain their reasoning?
No extra payments were made at any point. Guards salary remained the same. Originally a basic First Aid course was done as part of the conductor training but this was removed from the training course.
danbarnstall
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If ever there was a place that would see drivers not crossing picket lines it was going to be in Liverpool. ASLEF should already be around the negotiating table, they never should have put their drivers in this position.
A pretty grim day for us commuters but surprised at level of support this morning for the strike. Many on my bus venting their frustrations at the company rather than staff.
A pretty grim day for us commuters but surprised at level of support this morning for the strike. Many on my bus venting their frustrations at the company rather than staff.
Previously advertised timetable has been completely thrown out.
Southport-Hunts Cross: terminating at Liverpool Central, not calling at Hall Road, Bootle Oriel Road, Bank Hall, Sandhills.
Ormskirk line only going as far as Maghull, again not stopping at Sandhills
West Kirby not stopping at Manor Road, Bidston, Birkenhead Park and Conway Park.
Chester line terminating at Hooton. Eastham Rake and Bromborough Rake closed.
No service to Kirkby, Hunts Cross or Ellesmere Port.
There is also a 3-hour gap in service on most lines in the middle of the day. Services winding down around 6pm. Source: www.merseyrailupdates.org
Southport-Hunts Cross: terminating at Liverpool Central, not calling at Hall Road, Bootle Oriel Road, Bank Hall, Sandhills.
Ormskirk line only going as far as Maghull, again not stopping at Sandhills
West Kirby not stopping at Manor Road, Bidston, Birkenhead Park and Conway Park.
Chester line terminating at Hooton. Eastham Rake and Bromborough Rake closed.
No service to Kirkby, Hunts Cross or Ellesmere Port.
There is also a 3-hour gap in service on most lines in the middle of the day. Services winding down around 6pm. Source: www.merseyrailupdates.org
trainophile
Established Member
I can understand the drivers supporting the strike, but it's a bit petty to cut out certain stations on routes they are driving anyway isn't it?
That's not the drivers, it's the company's decision, presumably it's the only way they can manage to run the hourly service with the crew they've got.
jamesst
Established Member
Cutting out certain stations = faster journey time = faster turnaround time= less units needed = less driver managers needed to drive the trains
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
And yet that frustration is totally misplaced. Merseyrail (the concessionaire) is just doing as it is told, just like GTR and Northern. The difference here is that it's being told by Merseytravel, not central Government.
Merseytravel should be the recipient of the ire of anyone not agreeing with GTR and supporting the traincrew.
Pyreneenguy
Member
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Exciting times !
Perhaps the inconvenienced travelling public should ask themselves what they will be able to do when "technological progress" destroys the job they've been doing for the last 25 years. In most cases the answer will be, simply nothing.
Perhaps the inconvenienced travelling public should ask themselves what they will be able to do when "technological progress" destroys the job they've been doing for the last 25 years. In most cases the answer will be, simply nothing.
What about signallers? Surely the fact that more technological advanced signalling leads to greater capacity ?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That is an issue for society to address at a macro level across all industries, and there are options such as UBI. The railway is not a job creation scheme and nor should it be one.
I dont quite get that.....seems to me that the more passengers that rail attracts, the more jobs are created in the industry. Certainly right now at my TOC they are taking on some significant numbers of new guys despite the issue around future guards.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Merseyrail are presently recruiting guards, on fixed 3 year contracts (it's in another thread on here). This would suggest to me that they believe the natural rate of attrition will be such that they aren't lying when they say nobody will be made to take compulsory redundancy. Meanwhile if you take a job on a fixed 3 year contract you know it will last 3 years - if you don't like it, don't apply - it's what is on offer.
I don't think it's the Union's business to deal with the employment of future hypothetical employees who may not even choose to join their Union, only to represent the existing ones.
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Ah right.....so overall then as the industry grows, numbers of employees will increase anyway despite the fact that some jobs will look different than they do today? I myself would certainly apply for a 3 years fixed term guards role if I wasnt already inside ...I would look at it as giving me plenty of time to adapt for a future role.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Said future role could of course be a guard on something like InterCity West Coast. It is highly unlikely that trains would be driver-only operated on that route. The driver may end up doing the doors, but that isn't the only consideration.
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