RMT Ballot Avanti West Coast Members For Strike Action

[Wolfie]

Ten seconds. You are quick then . I'm sure mine used to take longer to turn on. I had to pass the notice case anyway , because it's at the booking on point. Of course I sometimes charged it at work , but rarely. I charged it at home usually as I am in the cab and generally not sitting in the messroom. To be honest I didn't need or indeed , neither would I ask for or strike over a payment. But it definitely took more time and money than paper notices .

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Yes , because although I wouldn't ask for more money or would I strike , it's still a fact. People on here saying that it doesn't make more work or cost you money are wrong. My toc didn't pay my electricity bill.

What makes you think that employers of those working from home paid their additional utility costs. I say again boy have you guys got a shock coming when HMT really start. Your tame management will either get some backbones or a P45...

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Just shows what other people will do for free.

Yup, the people who you expect to carry on funding your goodtimes. It ain't going to happen.

 

[LowLevel]

EJRA was put out to referendum.
Agreed that’s what the union is there for however voting no on a ballot paper is not the answer.
A weak turn out at a ballot tells the company they can just ride over whatever the issue is.

Part of the job of the union and it's officials is to correctly read the mood of it's membership on issues. Sometimes they need reminding that the membership are the union, and if they've not made the case then that is on them.

Ballots cost a significant sum. I usually vote with the union. Sometimes if I feel they're wrong I vote against. I am an experienced railway employee and have been in unions since I started my first job. I trust my own feelings and if they're strong enough to vote against the union then I shall do and that is potentially their failing.

Never questioning union representatives and holding them to account is not sensible. They tend to have their own agendas as well.

 

[baz962]

What makes you think that employers of those working from home paid their additional utility costs. I say again boy have you guys got a shock coming when HMT really start. Your tame management will either get some backbones or a P45...

I wouldn't know if other people got their utilities paid. That's why I don't compare myself to others , but yet everyone else is comparing the railway to other industries. Bit of hypocrisy going on.

 

[the sniper]

What makes you think that employers of those working from home paid their additional utility costs.

Is this something you celebrate?

 

[Starmill]

Is this something you celebrate?

It doesn't sound like it to me? It sounds like they're simply happy to do it because they know that they do a good job and are a valuable person in the organisation who will be rewarded in good times in the future for supporting the business. Either that or they just want to get on with the job and don't have time to worry about small items to their benefit or disbenefit.

 

[Wolfie]

It already is being questioned. I fully support people's right to be in a union, but some of the attitudes on display from staff here are incredibly unwise. Wait until a few of you get quoted at the Tory party conference.

The railway will get smaller and leaner over the next ten years.

Absolutely.

 

[O L Leigh]

Part of the job of the union and it's officials is to correctly read the mood of it's membership on issues. Sometimes they need reminding that the membership are the union, and if they've not made the case then that is on them.

Ballots cost a significant sum. I usually vote with the union. Sometimes if I feel they're wrong I vote against. I am an experienced railway employee and have been in unions since I started my first job. I trust my own feelings and if they're strong enough to vote against the union then I shall do and that is potentially their failing.

Never questioning union representatives and holding them to account is not sensible. They tend to have their own agendas as well.

Completely this.

One of the thing that aggravates me about union membership is the lack of critical thinking sometimes shown by members. It's very rare for anyone to try and unpick the real issues surrounding things like EJRA or to understand what it actually means. We had a ballot on this and, like turkeys voting for Christmas, the motion was carried by a majority. However, some are now very surprised to learn exactly what it's going to mean for them and their colleagues or how the policy is going to be enacted, even though it was very clearly stated prior to the ballot.

If you want intelligent leadership then the membership has to start exercising it's own intelligence by questioning policies and decisions rather than just being lead by the nose like a bull in an abatoir.

 

[Wolfie]

Is this something you celebrate?

No but nor am l, as a public sector worker, prepared to pay for my own utility costs and also yours too. The railway will change either the easy way or the hard way but change it will.

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I wouldn't know if other people got their utilities paid. That's why I don't compare myself to others , but yet everyone else is comparing the railway to other industries. Bit of hypocrisy going on.

Given the amount of taxpayers money that has gone into propping up the railway you better get used to it. Bear in mind that if people are asked if they want to fund your Byzantine practices with their taxes there will only be one answer....

Sadly the more l see some views on here the more l half expect fire and hire (please note that HMG recently specifically blocked a backbench attempt to make that unlawful) to be at least threatened sooner rather than later.

 

[Starmill]

I wouldn't know if other people got their utilities paid. That's why I don't compare myself to others , but yet everyone else is comparing the railway to other industries. Bit of hypocrisy going on.

It's standard practice to question what public money is spent on?

 

[baz962]

No but nor am l, as a public sector worker, prepared to pay for my own utility costs and also yours too. The railway will change either the easy way or the hard way but change it will.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2021 ==


Given the amount of taxpayers money that has gone into propping up the railway you better get used to it. Bear in mind that if people are asked if they want to fund your Byzantine practices with their taxes there will only be one answer...

Well I know things may well change. I was happy to forego a payrise. In fact I changed tocs and took around a 5k cut. But like I said I personally wouldn't ask for anything to use a tablet , but I won't condemn those that do. But whatever you think people want or not I will almost certainly still be driving trains until I retire in between 10 - 14 years and if not , well I don't worry about things out of my control .

 

[Wolfie]

Well I know things may well change. I was happy to forego a payrise. In fact I changed tocs and took around a 5k cut. But like I said I personally wouldn't ask for anything to use a tablet , but I won't condemn those that do. But whatever you think people want or not I will almost certainly still be driving trains until I retire in between 10 - 14 years and if not , well I don't worry about things out of my control .

I don't think that drivers are at any risk of redundancy (a pay freeze for some time yes, but redundancy no) but that certainly isn't the case for many trades on the railway l am afraid.

 

[baz962]

I don't think that drivers are at any risk of redundancy (a pay freeze for some time yes, but redundancy no) but that certainly isn't the case for many trades on the railway l am afraid.

Oh so I'm not at risk of redundancy ( I knew that already ) Guess you were wrong about that shock then. Phew I thought you knew something I didn't.

 

[the sniper]

It doesn't sound like it to me? It sounds like they're simply happy to do it because they know that they do a good job and are a valuable person in the organisation who will be rewarded in good times in the future for supporting the business. Either that or they just want to get on with the job and don't have time to worry about small items to their benefit or disbenefit.

Well if people are happy with that situation, good for them. We can but hope that their perceived value is rewarded with some monetary value when the company decides they've arrived at 'good times', to help them pay the bills, even if they aren't fussy either way.

Going by this thread, seeing as we're all being willed out of a job because of a one off technology payments, which some may or may not receive only once in their career, I'm not sure we can not afford to grasp these small payment while we can!

 

[O L Leigh]

But whatever you think people want or not I will almost certainly still be driving trains until I retire in between 10 - 14 years and if not , well I don't worry about things out of my control .

I don't think it's the driving grade that needs to be looking over it's shoulder at present.

I'll be careful how I say this, but the other side to the cost issue is income, and there are colleagues who could perhaps be doing a wee bit more to shoulder that particular burden. Although I appreciate that not all fit into this category, my worry is that they are not really doing enough to justify their continued existence.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2021 ==

Going by this thread, seeing as we're all being willed out of a job because of a one off technology payments, which some may or may not receive only once in their career, I'm not sure we can not afford to grasp these small payment while we can!

I think it might also be worth pointing out that the RMT are to ballot their members, which is a long way from having people standing around braziers. We don't yet know whether or not payments will be made or strike action taken.

 

[baz962]

I don't think it's the driving grade that needs to be looking over it's shoulder at present.

I'll be careful how I say this, but the other side to the cost issue is income, and there are colleagues who could perhaps be doing a wee bit more to shoulder that particular burden. Although I appreciate that not all fit into this category, my worry is that they are not really doing enough to justify their continued existence.

As I said in a few previous posts now. I personally wouldn't ask for more and more than happy to support other grades. But it's their choice to make and if that rocks the boat , they only have themselves to blame. They can vote against the RMT proposal.

 

[Wolfie]

Oh so I'm not at risk of redundancy ( I knew that already ) Guess you were wrong about that shock then. Phew I thought you knew something I didn't.

The NUM thought that they were fireproof too. Emergency primary legislation doesn't take long to push through - see the COVID Acts.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm getting the impression from this thread that people off the railway aren't too fussy about what they're paid to do, so I'm not sure I should answer for them.

Generally speaking, if the job is essentially the same thing I applied to do and the hours are near enough what I agreed when I applied, I don't mind.

 

[baz962]

The NUM thought that they were fireproof too. Emergency primary legislation doesn't take long to push through - see the COVID Acts.

So what is it . Am I at risk or not. Like I said before , I won't worry about what I can't control.

 

[43096]

I wonder if the attitude is the same in FOC world, where it's a much more commercial business in terms of no freight trains running = no job?

 

[Mag_seven]

As we now appear to be discussing rail industrial relations issues in general we will bring this thread to a close at this point.

As soon as the result of the Avanti ballot is known we will look to reopen the thread.

thanks everyone

 

[footprints]

Ballot result announced.

Are you prepared to take strike action?

Number of individuals who were entitled to vote in the ballot: 1961
Number of votes cast in the ballot: 1198
Number of individuals answering “Yes” to the question: 1026
Number of individuals answering “No” to the question: 171
Number of spoiled or otherwise invalid voting papers returned: 1

Are you prepared to take industrial action short of a strike?

Number of individuals who were entitled to vote in the ballot: 1961
Number of votes cast in the ballot: 1198
Number of individuals answering “Yes” to the question: 1120
Number of individuals answering “No” to the question: 69
Number of spoiled or otherwise invalid voting papers returned: 9

www.rmt.org.uk/about/ballot-results/breakdown-in-industrial-relations-avanti-west-coast181121/

 

[Starmill]

Ballot result announced.

www.rmt.org.uk/about/ballot-results/breakdown-in-industrial-relations-avanti-west-coast181121/

Bizarrely the company line appears to be that the strike action is unlawful.

 

[Wolfie]

Bizarrely the company line appears to be that the strike action is unlawful.

At face value that seems to be rubbish, assuming that the ballot was conducted properly.

 

[Watershed]

At face value that seems to be rubbish, assuming that the ballot was conducted properly.

I mean it's not far off it, the minimum number of ballots returned must be 50% for it to be a lawful strike mandate. Here that figure was only 52.3%.

Makes you wonder to what extent TMs would truly be happy to go on strike over this...

 

[6Z09]

I mean it's not far off it, the minimum number of ballots returned must be 50% for it to be a lawful strike mandate. Here that figure was only 52.3%.

Makes you wonder to what extent TMs would truly be happy to go on strike over this...

They should all have voted then, a very common occurrence with ballots, and the moaners are very often those that failed to vote!

 

[74A]

So bizarrely if the people who voted no had not bothered to vote then the vote for strike would have failed !

 

[FManc]

I mean it's not far off it, the minimum number of ballots returned must be 50% for it to be a lawful strike mandate. Here that figure was only 52.3%.

Makes you wonder to what extent TMs would truly be happy to go on strike over this...

My understanding is that there has to be a 50% return on the ballots. 61% returned them. Also, you need 40% of total eligible votes in favour of strike action. 52.3% in this case. I stand to be corrected but that’s what I thought the rules are.

 

[Robertj21a]

I mean it's not far off it, the minimum number of ballots returned must be 50% for it to be a lawful strike mandate. Here that figure was only 52.3%.

Makes you wonder to what extent TMs would truly be happy to go on strike over this...

I'm a total outsider but that doesn't sound like a very convincing result. Rather a lukewarm response.

 

[Watershed]

They should all have voted then, a very common occurrence with ballots, and the moaners are very often those that failed to vote!

No, with the strange laws on ballot minima, anyone against a potential strike would be better served by not casting their ballot at all!

 

[6Z09]

No, with the strange laws on ballot minima, anyone against a potential strike would be better served by not casting their ballot at all!

Agree that sadly ,that is a way of sabotaging the ballot !
The rules are stacked against the trade unions. My point is that any employee should have the gumption to know one way or another about issues affecting their daily work conditions and vote accordingly, instead of playing some silly political game.