RMT Ballot Avanti West Coast Members For Strike Action

[dk1]

I'm sorry, but covid tests and daily temp checks paid as overtime really is taking the mick. Companies all over the country will of had staff doing that without paying overtime, and I can't see any justification for paying overtime, even if that was what was required for driver training.

Where I work, temp checks prior to entry to building and daily lateral flow checks have become the norm, and I do those checks to protect others around me, not thinking, oh i should get overtime for this.

No wonder the railway is looking for cost cutting if they are paying overtime for testing.

Trouble is these things have to be done before duty so in our own time which is unacceptable & therefore as said over & above normal duties. To continue with training (which went fantastically well at my TOC) something had to be offered else we would now be in the position other operators have & still are facing. It was all very well organised indeed.

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Do ASLEF demand training time when they change the type of toilet paper in the bogs?

Tick-tock things are gonna change very soon..........

Can’t see anything changing at all. Negotiations are usually pretty constructive between this union & management.

 

[800001]

Trouble is these things have to be done before duty so in our own time which is unacceptable & therefore as said over & above normal duties. To continue with training (which went fantastically well at my TOC) something had to be offered else we would now be in the position other operators have & still are facing. It was all very well organised indeed.

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Can’t see anything changing at all. Negotiations are usually pretty constructive between this union & management.

I find that shocking that it's paid as overtime for something that 1000s of people around the country would be doing without getting paid.
It takes 30 seconds if that to do a test, and to class it over and above normal duties , well that's dumb founded me.

 

[Starmill]

Sorry but £300 is just taking the p***.

It is but if one thought one could get away with it you'd always get people who will try and take it. The responsibility is also with the people who sign off on such expenditures.

 

[Fokx]

I find that shocking that it's paid as overtime for something that 1000s of people around the country would be doing without getting paid.
It takes 30 seconds if that to do a test, and to class it over and above normal duties , well that's dumb founded me.

It takes 30 seconds to do the test but you have to wait 30 minutes for the result if it’s PCR

 

[Starmill]

The Scotrail agreement has, unsurprisingly, opened the floodgates for pay claims, and I imagine the network will be disrupted by countless strikes unless the government agrees to at least match that increase.

Indeed. And the ScotRail dispute may very well start up once again in April.

 

[the sniper]

Do ASLEF demand training time when they change the type of toilet paper in the bogs?

If they're expecting people to wipe their backsides with electronic devices instead, it may be required. Switching from paper to electronic systems is quite a change, as you highlight here.

Tick-tock things are gonna change very soon..........

I don't TikTok will be introduced to the driving grade, sorry.

 

[dk1]

It takes 30 seconds to do the test but you have to wait 30 minutes for the result if it’s PCR

It takes several minutes to do the test which was then posted to Northern Ireland. Results came through within 36 hours.

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If they're expecting people to wipe their backsides with electronic devices instead, it may be required. Switching from paper to electronic systems is quite a change, as you highlight here.



I don't TikTok will be introduced to the driving grade, sorry.

Never say never lol

 

[baz962]

It doesn't require "significant training" to change from reading a sheet of paper to reading an iPad. Apple have put considerable effort into making using one super-intuitive, so they are great for older people etc to learn very quickly. It's IT people who find them hard, generally, as they don't, unlike Android, do things in an IT way. Perhaps an hour's actual training plus having a "tech champion" to hand at each depot to help people who were getting stuck. (Yes, this sort of thing is my job, so I know full well how other industries introduce technical changes).

What significant additional responsibilities does reading your email instead of a display cabinet cause you? If you were to do this at home instead of after booking on, then I'd expect your shift to be adjusted accordingly so you are paid for the time you are doing work, but not a pay rise per-se.

As for the notices. You look in the cabinet and there they are. To turn on and log in to an iPad takes more time. Also we had to have them charged as we signed to say that when booking on. That's money on my electric bill , that I previously wasn't paying for.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for the notices. You look in the cabinet and there they are. To turn on and log in to an iPad takes more time.

To get to this Forum on my iPad just took 10 seconds.

To look in the cabinet requires going there.

Also we had to have them charged as we signed to say that when booking on. That's money on my electric bill , that I previously wasn't paying for.

This is Michael O'Leary's level of trivial. Never plugged your phone in to charge at work, e.g. in the messroom?

 

[dk1]

As for the notices. You look in the cabinet and there they are. To turn on and log in to an iPad takes more time. Also we had to have them charged as we signed to say that when booking on. That's money on my electric bill , that I previously wasn't paying for.

We can charge them up in the cabs & messroom if you want. Also no need to return to check the notice case when you finish or get cut out somewhere. It can all be done at your leisure.

 

[Starmill]

Also we had to have them charged as we signed to say that when booking on. That's money on my electric bill , that I previously wasn't paying for.

Is this a serious comment, or..?

 

[baz962]

To get to this Forum on my iPad just took 10 seconds.

To look in the cabinet requires going there.



This is Michael O'Leary's level of trivial. Never plugged your phone in to charge at work, e.g. in the messroom?

Ten seconds. You are quick then . I'm sure mine used to take longer to turn on. I had to pass the notice case anyway , because it's at the booking on point. Of course I sometimes charged it at work , but rarely. I charged it at home usually as I am in the cab and generally not sitting in the messroom. To be honest I didn't need or indeed , neither would I ask for or strike over a payment. But it definitely took more time and money than paper notices .

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Is this a serious comment, or..?

Yes , because although I wouldn't ask for more money or would I strike , it's still a fact. People on here saying that it doesn't make more work or cost you money are wrong. My toc didn't pay my electricity bill.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ten seconds. You are quick then . I'm sure mine used to take longer to turn on. I had to pass the notice case anyway , because it's at the booking on point. Of course I sometimes charged it at work , but rarely. I charged it at home usually as I am in the cab and generally not sitting in the messroom. To be honest I didn't need or indeed , neither would I ask for or strike over a payment. But it definitely took more time and money than paper notice

The idea of tablets is that you don't turn them fully off. With the screen off they use hardly any power.

A quick Google suggests £1.70 per year (yes, one pound and seventy pence). And I suspect that's with more use than you'd give it.

Yes , because although I wouldn't ask for more money or would I strike , it's still a fact. People on here saying that it doesn't make more work or cost you money are wrong. My toc didn't pay my electricity bill.

It's beyond trivial. Never nicked a paperclip or pen? Photocopied something? Boiled the kettle to make tea?

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Is this a serious comment, or..?

Quite. People getting stuck up on this show just how toxic the culture has got.

 

[221129]

The idea of tablets is that you don't turn them fully off.

Which it is a requirement that they are switched fully off in the cab.

 

[baz962]

The idea of tablets is that you don't turn them fully off. With the screen off they use hardly any power.



It's beyond trivial. Never nicked a paperclip or pen? Photocopied something?

They are supposed to be off in the cab as with mobile phones , so yep fully off. I never nicked a paperclip no. Probably a pen many years ago . Definitely not as a driver. In fact I'm regularly moaned at for not having one. It's all moot though. My point isn't that people should get more or not and indeed I personally wouldn't ask for more. But it is a fact it's more work and money than notices in a case .

 

[ComUtoR]

To get to this Forum on my iPad just took 10 seconds.

Samsung work phone.

1m 2s to press the Outlook button
3m 27s for it to update my inbox

My work tablet is a no go as it isn't charged. The only reason my work phone is charged is because I need it tomorrow and the battery fault means it has to be plugged in or it wont last overnight. There is a software update required Again !! and the Samsung apps can't be updated because of out IT policies block the Galaxy store.

Not all IT and tech is created equal.

 

[the sniper]

Quite. People getting stuck up on this show just how toxic the culture has got.

Just shows what other people will do for free.

 

[Fokx]

People getting stuck up on this show just how toxic the culture has got.

And the opposite of that is showing how toxic peoples work environment is and how they’re powerless to implement changes that benefit not only them but their employer

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Just shows what other people will do for free.

“I have poor working conditions so everyone else should”

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just shows what other people will do for free.

Or that employment is a partnership of trust, and either side nickel-and-diming the other damages that?

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“I have poor working conditions so everyone else should”

It is absolutely and utterly preposterous to suggest that charging your work mobile phone at home, costing about £2 per year, is in any way "poor working conditions".

 

[LowLevel]

Which it is a requirement that they are switched fully off in the cab.

Not everywhere. Where they are used it tends to be perfectly fine to have them on.

 

[the sniper]

Or that employment is a partnership of trust, and either side nickel-and-diming the other damages that?

The companies save a lot moving away from paper notices, everyone wins...

 

[Bletchleyite]

The companies save a lot moving away from paper notices

Good. The tax burden of inefficient practices in the railway needs to reduce considerably.

The other option is to cut services and jobs. Rather that?

 

[Starmill]

Yes , because although I wouldn't ask for more money or would I strike , it's still a fact. People on here saying that it doesn't make more work or cost you money are wrong. My toc didn't pay my electricity bill.

It's hard to believe that these attitudes really apply until you remember that you're dealing with the railway industry.

 

[duncanp]

It is absolutely and utterly preposterous to suggest that charging your work mobile phone at home, costing about £2 per year, is in any way "poor working conditions".

And you would have to offset that £2 per year against the money saved by people charging their personal mobile phones during company time.

 

[Starmill]

“I have poor working conditions so everyone else should”

There are doubtless some genuine examples of this, i.e. poor working conditions, but they wouldn't include occasionally charging a small electronic device at home (as well as occasionally your own at work, of course), or inspection of tickets with a laser scanner instead of with your eyes. Or anything else similarly referred to here.

 

[Fokx]

It is absolutely and utterly preposterous to suggest that charging your work mobile phone at home, costing about £2 per year, is in any way "poor working conditions".

At what point do you draw the line though? A work phone or iPad issued for the purpose of work should not be charged at home at the employees expense.

If you wear a uniform you are able to claim a small tax reduction to essentially cover the costs of cleaning it, why should using a device by work issued for using solely at work be any different?

 

[dk1]

The companies save a lot moving away from paper notices, everyone wins...

Until just a few years ago we had a full time post that spent Monday & Tuesday assembling & printing WONS (Weekly Operating Notices) then Wednesday & Thursday delivering them to traincrew depots across the company. Always frustrated her that drivers told her that all that effort she puts in for many of them to never actually look at the end product.

 

[Fokx]

There are doubtless some genuine examples of this, i.e. poor working conditions, but they wouldn't include occasionally charging a small electronic device at home (as well as occasionally your own at work, of course), or inspection of tickets with a laser scanner instead of with your eyes. Or anything else similarly referred to here.

Agreed. But the reason for the proposed action isn’t specifically one single item of these reasons but a combination thereof and more. It’s a failure to agree between union and management

 

[Starmill]

At what point do you draw the line though? A work phone or iPad issued for the purpose of work should not be charged at home at the employees expense.

If you wear a uniform you are able to claim a small tax reduction to essentially cover the costs of cleaning it, why should using a device by work issued for using solely at work be any different?

It's not. You can claim the tax back on the 0.005% of your electricity bill if you want to. If you keep meticulous records of every unit of electricity used exclusively for work, obviously.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At what point do you draw the line though? A work phone or iPad issued for the purpose of work should not be charged at home at the employees expense.

You just use a bit of common sense. Human reasonableness. Give and take. You know, as one would expect from a relationship of mutual trust between a company and its employees.

If you wear a uniform you are able to claim a small tax reduction to essentially cover the costs of cleaning it, why should using a device by work issued for using solely at work be any different?

If you are bored enough, request a tax return and you can claim £0.40 of annual tax relief for it if you really want, assuming you can provide evidence that you did spend £2 on electricity charging a work device.

Or alternatively don't be silly, and take into account that assuming you drink tea at work, as most staff seem to, boiling the kettle to make it several times a day will set the railway back far more.