Riviera 66

[UrieS15]

You guys were good enough to help me earlier with details for my novel. Please could you tell me the time the Riviera left Paddington in July '66 I vaguely think it was 11.00. and what time did it reach Bodmin Road? Thanks UrieS15

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Still at the traditional time of 10.30 in July '66 - arrive Bodmin Road 15.21. (M - F). 'Torbay Express' followed at 10.40.

 

[UrieS15]

Still at the traditional time of 10.30 in July '66 - arrive Bodmin Road 15.21. (M - F). 'Torbay Express' followed at 10.40.

Thank you so much, I knew one of you would know the answer. From my memories of the route in Summer back then I guess Bodmin Road time was more in hope than expectation. UrieS15

 

[Taunton]

Thank you so much, I knew one of you would know the answer. From my memories of the route in Summer back then I guess Bodmin Road time was more in hope than expectation.

Not so much. The "Rivvy" in that time used to pass west of Taunton spot on time, it was the train of the day for control to manage. I would wait when linesiding to see it pass, then it was the signal to go home for lunch.

 

[UrieS15]

My apologies to the blessed memory. I guess a Western would be the loco of choice?

 

[Taunton]

It was actually a subset of the Westerns that were assigned to the Cornish Riviera and the Golden Hind by 1966. They were known as the "Golden Westerns". The matching of the transmissions to the engines, and between the two engines, did vary on these locos, they were more "some are better than others" than some other classes, and these good ones made a bit of a difference. I have forgotten how many of them, maybe about 8 of them, the selected ones probably varied over time. Quite likely a Warship might take over west of Plymouth, the load having been much reduced by then, and the restaurant cars did not work west of there.

 

[UrieS15]

It was actually a subset of the Westerns that were assigned to the Cornish Riviera and the Golden Hind by 1966. They were known as the "Golden Westerns". The matching of the transmissions to the engines, and between the two engines, did vary on these locos, they were more "some are better than others" than some other classes, and these good ones made a bit of a difference. I have forgotten how many of them, maybe about 8 of them, the selected ones probably varied over time. Quite likely a Warship might take over west of Plymouth, the load having been much reduced by then, and the restaurant cars did not work west of there.

Thank you, that is very helpful it stops my heroine having a coffee after Plymouth! Urie S15

 

[Taunton]

I don't know if the Rivvy had a buffet in 1966. The timetable for the year before, on line https://timetableworld.com/book_viewer.php?id=12&section_id=15 (Table 1) shows it as only having a restaurant car, which is how many WR principal services were then, normally two coaches, an RC (half kitchen, half restaurant seats) plus an RUO (fully restaurant seated) marshalled against the kitchen end with serving through the corridor connections. In that case, they would let people in between meals and serve just a coffee (some crews less grudgingly than others), but this train would try and do two "sittings" for lunch in the four hours between Paddington and Plymouth. My hunch is that they would do a Morning Coffee on departure from Paddington at 10.30, then first lunch at about 11.30 and second lunch about 12.45, cleared away by 14.00 for a 14.30 arrival into Plymouth. You might squeeze a coffee in at the end.

The stop at Bodmin Road appears to have come in between the 1965 and 1966 timetables. No services had catering facilities west of Plymouth by this era, they were all detached there, where the formation was reduced.

 

[UrieS15]

I don't know if the Rivvy had a buffet in 1966. The timetable for the year before, on line https://timetableworld.com/book_viewer.php?id=12&section_id=15 (Table 1) shows it as only having a restaurant car, which is how many WR principal services were then, normally two coaches, an RC (half kitchen, half restaurant seats) plus an RUO (fully restaurant seated) marshalled against the kitchen end with serving through the corridor connections. In that case, they would let people in between meals and serve just a coffee (some crews less grudgingly than others), but this train would try and do two "sittings" for lunch in the four hours between Paddington and Plymouth. My hunch is that they would do a Morning Coffee on departure from Paddington at 10.30, then first lunch at about 11.30 and second lunch about 12.45, cleared away by 14.00 for a 14.30 arrival into Plymouth. You might squeeze a coffee in at the end.

The stop at Bodmin Road appears to have come in between the 1965 and 1966 timetables. No services had catering facilities west of Plymouth by this era, they were all detached there, where the formation was reduced.

Interesting. I moved to Liskeard in 1966 and was unaware that the stop at Bodmin Road was an innovation, which it clearly was. If you were living in the Bodmin area prior to that, where did you alight? Bodmin was still served by the branch from Bodmin Road when I was down there, I remember using a railbus on one occasion, othertimes probably a DMU. If the Riviera didn't stop there did you travel back from Lostwithiel or even Par( it must have stopped there for Newquay)? There was no facility at Liskeard for a connecting service. It will provide an conversation topic for my characters. Thanks Urie S15

 

[30907]

Interesting. I moved to Liskeard in 1966 and was unaware that the stop at Bodmin Road was an innovation, which it clearly was. If you were living in the Bodmin area prior to that, where did you alight? Bodmin was still served by the branch from Bodmin Road when I was down there, I remember using a railbus on one occasion, othertimes probably a DMU. If the Riviera didn't stop there did you travel back from Lostwithiel or even Par( it must have stopped there for Newquay)? There was no facility at Liskeard for a connecting service. It will provide an conversation topic for my characters. Thanks Urie S15

The 65 timetable shows a stopping connection from Plymouth, but also a note that Padstow passengers could change at Exeter for an earlier arrival - a through DMU. No good for Bodmin though!
(BTW and OT: there was a period around 1970 when Newquay trains ran from/to Bodmin Road, allowing expresses to skip Par).

 

[Taunton]

Interesting. I moved to Liskeard in 1966 and was unaware that the stop at Bodmin Road was an innovation, which it clearly was. If you were living in the Bodmin area prior to that, where did you alight?

Referring to the timetable I linked shows in 1965 the Rivvy leaving Plymouth at 1443 was nonstop to Par, but it had connected into a local service leaving Plymouth just 5 minutes later, at 1448, which did the intermediate points while allowing the Express to get well ahead. The intermediate service connected at Bodmin Road for all points to Padstow. It seems a useful use of resources. Bodmin was not THAT important a place to serve from London.

The railbus was a strange innovation. The two Bodmin stations were neither of them convenient for the town centre, the GWR General terminus was the furthest out building in the town at the time (it probably took longer to walk into town than the train took to get there from Bodmin Road), while the SR North station was in a back road and faced the wrong way to give any useful connection to a major point. Nevertheless the WR built a brand-new station, in Beeching-era 1964 (!), specifically Boscarne Exchange Platform, where the two lines to Wadebridge from the separate stations met, and the railbus did just four connecting shuttles a day from there on the 5-minute (genuinely) trip into Bodmin North, giving the handful (as there always were) of passengers from Wadebridge the luxury of being able to choose which of the inconvenient stations in Bodmin to arrive at. The rest of the time the railbus crew presumably read their newspaper. The railbus later got used on the Bodmin Road shuttles as well. Boscarne Exchange Platform, knocked up out of old sleepers, lasted just two and a half years and then the whole set of lines were closed. If your character is travelling to Bodmin by train you may find this page of interest http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/bodmin-to-padstow.html

 

[UrieS15]

Thank you gentlemen for such thorough help. I also enjoyed the CRS collection. Urie S15

 

[30907]

-The railbus was a strange innovation...

IIRC made redundant from the Tetbury and Cirencester branches - and allowed a bigger vehicle to dieselise yet another ex SR service somewhere, no doubt..