Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party.

[nlogax]

Quite.

The problem is, while I suspect Truss herself has been neutralised, how many of her ilk are lurking within the parliamentary and wider party.

Truss represents the Tory party's version of the militant tendancy and is potentially very dangerous to the country.

I'm unconvinced that Truss has been neutralised. She's in the process of attempting to reboard the bandwagon and I strongly suspect this will be evident during her speech today. She continues to display zero inclination to demonstrate contrition or any personal or political lessons learned from her disastrous forty nine days in office and there are people in the Tory party and amongst the wider membership who will continue to support her and send votes her way.

In short, people are idiots.

 

[bspahh]

I'm unconvinced that Truss has been neutralised. She's in the process of attempting to reboard the bandwagon and I strongly suspect this will be evident during her speech today. She continues to display zero inclination to demonstrate contrition or any personal or political lessons learned from her disastrous forty nine days in office and there are people in the Tory party and amongst the wider membership who will continue to support her and send votes her way.

In short, people are idiots.

I don't know that she is targeting her speech at a UK audience. Her book has been published by a right wing publishing house in the USA. She can earn some cash from talks and lobby groups.

 

[nlogax]

I don't know that she is targeting her speech at a UK audience. Her book has been published by a right wing publishing house in the USA. She can earn some cash from talks and lobby groups.

It seems pretty UK-focused to me. Lots of 'we should do this, we need to do that'. If nothing else you have to admire the chutzpah.

 

[birchesgreen]

I think she is utterly deluded when going on about the "elite" as if she isn't part of it, certainly. An Oxford-educated ex-PM (which, taken together, surely qualifies her for automatic membership of the "elite"), wanting to cut taxes and benefits, abolish windfall taxes, and raise the retirement age further presumably to fund such tax cuts, is she not implementing policies to benefit the elite and to screw the rest of us?

She, Truss, is absolutely a member of the elite. People like her, clear members of the elite who think that they are not, and who think we will believe such nonsense, are clearly living on another planet.

Work until you drop to benefit Elizabeth Truss Global Banking Group plc.

Is she smoking lettuce?

 

[najaB]

PS Perhaps I should add that I do think the extent of Liz Truss's delusion tells me that she is unwell, in a way that isn't the case with Boris Johnson for whom self-delusion is just a distorted kind of self-interest.

Is it something other than self-interest though? I mean, she used to be a Lib Dem but realised that didn't have a path to power...

 

[nlogax]

Is it something other than self-interest though? I mean, she used to be a Lib Dem but realised that didn't have a path to power...

It's just that. Self-interest, stemming from her obvious aspiration to be seen as someone more than the utterly mediocre person she is.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm unconvinced that Truss has been neutralised. She's in the process of attempting to reboard the bandwagon and I strongly suspect this will be evident during her speech today. She continues to display zero inclination to demonstrate contrition or any personal or political lessons learned from her disastrous forty nine days in office and there are people in the Tory party and amongst the wider membership who will continue to support her and send votes her way.

In short, people are idiots.

Hopefully by the time she might re-gain significant influence, the Tory party will be in opposition and working its way through a series of leaders who don't appeal to a wider public, rather like in the Blair years. Or indeed since 2016 - some might say that Johnson had some appeal in 2019, but I tend to dismiss that after remembering who the alternatives were.

 

[Gloster]

To my mind, the worry is that in ten or fifteen years time the Conservatives will be looking around for a new leader and she will put herself forward as someone with experience and (probably) vision (*). The party will forget her gross incompetence and the chaos it caused, but be entranced by the promises that she makes.

* - At times she looks like someone who has seen visions.

 

[Thirteen]

To my mind, the worry is that in ten or fifteen years time the Conservatives will be looking around for a new leader and she will put herself forward as someone with experience and (probably) vision (*). The party will forget her gross incompetence and the chaos it caused, but be entranced by the promises that she makes.

* - At times she looks like someone who has seen visions.

Truss will probably have left politics by then. I imagine they'll pick some other up and comer who will be entering politics within the next election or the one after much like how David Cameron and Rishi Sunak rose to the top.

 

[nw1]

Truss will probably have left politics by then. I imagine they'll pick some other up and comer who will be entering politics within the next election or the one after much like how David Cameron and Rishi Sunak rose to the top.

Does everyone still think Mordaunt is likely to be the new Tory leader post-election, in the (likely) event they don't win it?

 

[Thirteen]

Does everyone still think Mordaunt is likely to be the new Tory leader post-election, in the (likely) event they don't win it?

Mordaunt or Badenoch would be my guess.

 

[brad465]

I think she is utterly deluded when going on about the "elite" as if she isn't part of it, certainly. An Oxford-educated ex-PM (which, taken together, surely qualifies her for automatic membership of the "elite"), wanting to cut taxes and benefits, abolish windfall taxes, and raise the retirement age further presumably to fund such tax cuts, is she not implementing policies to benefit the elite and to screw the rest of us?

She, Truss, is absolutely a member of the elite. People like her, clear members of the elite who think that they are not, and who think we will believe such nonsense, are clearly living on another planet.

Work until you drop to benefit Elizabeth Truss Global Banking Group plc.

"The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe, as the axe was clever and convinced the trees that as its handle was made of wood, it was one of them." - Turkish proverb

 

[Gloster]

It depends on the result, but it is quite possible that the Conservatives will be looking at being out of government for at least two electoral cycles. Whoever takes over the leadership of the party after the election will know that they will almost certainly be condemned to losing an election, being replaced and becoming a forgotten man or woman. So will big hitters like Badenoch or Mordaunt go for it this time, or will they let someone else clear up the mess and then depose them when there is a chance of power?

There is also the risk that the party will believe that the way to get elected is to go for even more right wing ‘slash and burn‘ policies and choose some raving nutter. If they can believe that that is the answer, then after another defeat they might feel that their policies weren‘t radical enough and go even further.

 

[jfollows]

The issue, though, is that the Conservative's leadership election process skews the contest.
Its first rounds tend to eliminate the most unpopular candidates, it's about who doesn't make the cut and not about who gets through.
Then you end up with two candidates, and only then can you choose the one you prefer, but there's a good chance that many peoples' preferred candidates will have been eliminated already.
The end result is Ian Duncan-Smith, Liz Truss and not Ken Clark or Michael Portillo.
So it's a wierd process.
The winner ought to be a David Cameron, but I think a competent leader will take a couple of iterations. I suspect the next leader will be someone whom the right-wing favour, which will condemn the party to a few more years of in-fighting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Sep 2023 ==

Does everyone still think Mordaunt is likely to be the new Tory leader post-election, in the (likely) event they don't win it?

No, I don't.
If she even makes it to the final two, she will then lose to her opponent, whoever it is.
A bit like last time the contest was run - it was Rishi vs. A N Other and Rishi was always going to lose.
Given the old white rich male electorate.

EDIT But it's a poisoned chalice anyway - William Hague, Iain Duncan-Smith and Michael Howard aren't exactly remembered with fondness for their time leading the broken party.

 

[nlogax]

The issue, though, is that the Conservative's leadership election process skews the contest.

As far as I can tell the only positive legacy of the Truss era has been the resulting increase in the threshold of candidates' nominations by MPs. Whether it'll return to the pre-Truss norm after the next GE is anyone's guess.

 

[GS250]

EDIT But it's a poisoned chalice anyway - William Hague, Iain Duncan-Smith and Michael Howard aren't exactly remembered with fondness for their time leading the broken party.

They were 'placeholders' really. Never likely to challenge for Government given the popularity of the Blair government.

Agreed the next Tory Leader will be interesting. Personally I'd like to see Badenoch given a go. If only for the fact she's the opposite of your average perception of a Tory. And she seems comparatively competent.

 

[takno]

They were 'placeholders' really. Never likely to challenge for Government given the popularity of the Blair government.

Agreed the next Tory Leader will be interesting. Personally I'd like to see Badenoch given a go. If only for the fact she's the opposite of your average perception of a Tory. And she seems comparatively competent.

Badenoch seems to be largely the same brand of right-wing nut-job as the rest of them. She's slightly better at staying quiet, but when she does let slip what she's thinking the results aren't good. At the absolute best she's about the same level of painful as Sunak.

 

[najaB]

Badenoch seems to be largely the same brand of right-wing nut-job as the rest of them. She's slightly better at staying quiet, but when she does let slip what she's thinking the results aren't good. At the absolute best she's about the same level of painful as Sunak.

My hope is that she's saying what she needs to say to fit in with the current cabinet. Wishful thinking, I know.

 

[sor]

Badenoch seems to be largely the same brand of right-wing nut-job as the rest of them. She's slightly better at staying quiet, but when she does let slip what she's thinking the results aren't good. At the absolute best she's about the same level of painful as Sunak.

It does seem like the trajectory is much like how it went in Australia - the culture war stuff just doesn't work as it does in the US (and even there, it's waning).

So a post-election Conservative Party would need to pick a side - do they want more of the same in Badenoch or do they want vaguely sensible/centrist in someone like Mordaunt. Assuming both keep their seats, of course

My hope is that she's saying what she needs to say to fit in with the current cabinet. Wishful thinking, I know.

During the leadership election she had someone stick male/female signs over the gender neutral toilet signs in one of the buildings she was using. Seems like a true believer to me.

 

[Busaholic]

whereas there are people who actually take her seriously (I gather).

Her immediate family (not her parents, apparently) plus MP Danny Kruger, the son of Prue Leith.

 

[jfollows]

Badenoch seems to be largely the same brand of right-wing nut-job as the rest of them. She's slightly better at staying quiet, but when she does let slip what she's thinking the results aren't good. At the absolute best she's about the same level of painful as Sunak.

I agree.
When she doesn't stay quiet, she comes across as arrogant and completely convinced of her own infallibility and omniscience.
I think if she's ever let out in public she will cause even more damage to the "brand" than has already been done. She'd be the wrong choice by miles.
But maybe it's just me. She gets up my nose and annoys me immensely!

 

[Sunil_P]

Should the Liz Truss Honours list be blocked? – politicalbetting.com

 

[nw1]

It does seem like the trajectory is much like how it went in Australia - the culture war stuff just doesn't work as it does in the US (and even there, it's waning).

So a post-election Conservative Party would need to pick a side - do they want more of the same in Badenoch or do they want vaguely sensible/centrist in someone like Mordaunt. Assuming both keep their seats, of course

I suspect both will: Badenoch is MP for deepest-rural Essex, the sort of place the Tories won't lose in a million years.
Mordaunt's seat is more questionable but I believe she has a strong local following.

During the leadership election she had someone stick male/female signs over the gender neutral toilet signs in one of the buildings she was using. Seems like a true believer to me.

That is a sure sign of culture warrior.

But maybe the Tories will pick her if they think they can't win a 2029 (?) election, another placeholder while the party sorts itself out.

 

[Falcon1200]

completely convinced of her own infallibility and omniscience.

Is that not true of all politicians, and indeed the reason they go into politics in the first place?!!

 

[jfollows]

Is that not true of all politicians, and indeed the reason they go into politics in the first place?!!

Most of them, but probably not all.

I had discovered how grotesquely unqualified so many of us, including myself, were for the offices we were given. (I held five different ministerial portfolios in just over three years and was put in charge of all the prisons in England and Wales knowing nothing about prisons, the Prison Service, the law or probation.) It was a culture that prized campaigning over careful governing, opinion polls over detailed policy debates, announcements over implementation.

Rory Stewart (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/16/rory-stewart-tory-mp-decade-incompetent)

 

[nlogax]

Is that not true of all politicians, and indeed the reason they go into politics in the first place?!!

That @jfollows beat me to it Rory Stewart is a good example of someone who went into politics for exactly the right reasons. I'm looking forward to listening to the audio version of his book.

 

[Busaholic]

That @jfollows beat me to it Rory Stewart is a good example of someone who went into politics for exactly the right reasons. I'm looking forward to listening to the audio version of his book.

I agree about Rory Stewart, though I daresay he harboured some personal ambitions too, hence his leadership bid. The difference between him and most of the other contenders, though, being that he was actually intent in achieving his policy proposals, failing which he'd quit as a failure. It was always clear he saw a section of the Conservative Party as the chief obstacle to the more radical plans for reform e.g. in prisons. In a way he reminds me of Willie Whitelaw, a 'liberal' Tory born high in the pecking order but keen on genuine change both in his own party and in the world beyond. It was no surprise to me when it came out Whitelaw had been put in charge of the secret talks with Sinn Fein, and that word hadn't got out even in Westminster. He was much underestimated, not least by his own party, though Thatcher was canny enough to know his importance.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I agree about Rory Stewart, though I daresay he harboured some personal ambitions too, hence his leadership bid. The difference between him and most of the other contenders, though, being that he was actually intent in achieving his policy proposals, failing which he'd quit as a failure. It was always clear he saw a section of the Conservative Party as the chief obstacle to the more radical plans for reform e.g. in prisons. In a way he reminds me of Willie Whitelaw, a 'liberal' Tory born high in the pecking order but keen on genuine change both in his own party and in the world beyond. It was no surprise to me when it came out Whitelaw had been put in charge of the secret talks with Sinn Fein, and that word hadn't got out even in Westminster. He was much underestimated, not least by his own party, though Thatcher was canny enough to know his importance.

Indeed. Every Prime Minister needs a Willie.

 

[Gloster]

The trouble is that those who want to go into politics for the right reasons will generally not get as far as those who go into it for the wrong ones. Those there for the wrong reasons will adopt behaviour and subterfuges to advance themselves that more honest and decent people won’t adopt. Those in it for themselves will do or say anything to get on, something that often seems to appeal to those who chose them as candidates over better people. There is an old adage that a desire to get to the top in politics should disbar you from ever doing so.

 

[dangie]

From the BBC:

Emergency measures to help run Birmingham City Council during its financial crisis have been announced by the government.

Michael Gove told the Commons that senior leadership figures in Birmingham had "harmed the city".

"Poor leadership, weak governance, woeful mismanagement of employee relations and ineffective service delivery have harmed the city," Mr Gove told Parliament.

Hang on a minute, is this not the Pot Calling the Kettle Black….?

Government sending in officials to run Birmingham City Council

Michael Gove accuses the city council of "woeful mismanagement" amid its financial crisis.

www.bbc.co.uk