Ripped of by transpenine

[Heath]

I went for a night out in leeds on saturday and bought a return ticket from huddersfield to leeds and told the sales counter person that I would be traveling back after 2 am sunday morning and asked what time the trains were. I was told that the trains time were 3:10am and 4:425 am and I could catch anyone with my ticket. When I came to get the train home and go through the turnstile I was stopped by a rail personell and was told my ticket was invalid and i had to buy another ticket, needless to say I was livid and when asked what on earth was going on the guy said we dont make the rules. The same guy stopped quite a few people who had to get new tickets. This is obviously a ripp off, being sold a return ticket and then forcred to by a new ticket. So what do I do I am disgusted at this.

Heath

 

[First class]

edit.

The guard was correct as your ticket is not valid after 0230.

I do find this post rather odd. There is no way that Leeds station is going to have any revenue protection staff there for those trains, and no turnstile...

 

[455driver]

Another new member comes on here to have a moan and gives very little detail!

 

[33011]

looking at the prices you have lost about £1.05 gosh you must be hard up. Perhaps you should write to trans pennine to get your £1.05p back

 

[sonic2009]

Leeds has secuirty people there during the night. I kno as when the last east coast train comes in from london around 2am. No one is allowed on station platform until the trannspennine service to manchester. And ive had my tickets checked

 

[northwichcat]

For clarity the ticket office and barrier at Huddersfield is operated by TransPennine Express but the ticket barriers and office at Leeds are operated by Northern Rail.

A single between Huddersfield and Leeds is £4.15 and an Off-Peak Day return is £5.20 which is where 33011 get's the £1.05 from. There is an error in the NRE system which shows a £5.20 day used for an outward service on Saturday being valid for the 06:40 train on Sunday morning, although not the 03:10 or 04:25.

If you write to TPE including both your tickets you may get sent rail travel vouchers for a future journey if they believe your story.

 

[yorkie]

edit.

The guard was correct as your ticket is not valid after 0230.

I do find this post rather odd. There is no way that Leeds station is going to have any revenue protection staff there for those trains, and no turnstile...

Are you sure?

I am 99% sure there is an easement that specifically allows the overnight TPE services to be valid on tickets purchased the previous day. For example there is a train to York at approx 0330.

I believe the ticket clerk was right, and the security person was wrong.

No guard involved by the sound of it, but I bet the guard would have allowed it.

In my experience, the guards are the most knowledgable (but not always) followed by the ticket clerks, and finally the barrier staff are usually the 'weakest link'.

If you consider how much harder it is to get a job as a guard than a barrier ticket checker, you can see why some (not all by any means) of them are so awful.

I reckon kwvr45 will be along shortly with details of the overnight TPE easements...!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For clarity the ticket office and barrier at Huddersfield is operated by TransPennine Express but the ticket barriers and office at Leeds are operated by Northern Rail..

I'd write to them both. I'd ask TPE because you are their customer. I'd ask why do they allow Northern to check tickets for use on TransPennine, when Northern do not even know the rules? Ask what steps TPE are going to take to ensure this does not happen again. Ask for a refund, plus a £10 admin fee for your time.

I'd seperately write to Northern stating that I was not their customer, and that a member of staff representing Northern had absolutely no right whatsoever to prevent me travelling validly with another operator, and that the bad experience with Northern means I will be choosing to take my custom to other operators such as TransPennine. Make it clear that ignorance is no excuse as if the member of staff was unsure, he should have checked! I'd insist on an apology and I would ask the key question: what steps are they going to do to ensure that this does not happen again? State that if no satisfactory response is recieved you will be informing Passenger Focus, your MP, etc.

Any other company would take notice of this and be concerned, but Northern are unlikely to be too bothered as they have a habit of treating their customers like dirt because they know they can get away with it. Worth a try though, especially if they think you're going to push it, they might do something.

 

[wibble]

I believe the ticket clerk was right, and the security person was wrong.

That wouldn't surprise me! I can't imagine the security staff get much retail training compared to a ticket office clerk....

 

[northwichcat]

I'd ask TPE because you are their customer. I'd ask why do they allow Northern to check tickets for use on TransPennine, when Northern do not even know the rules?

Do TPE actually have a choice in the matter? Northern manage Leeds station and if they want to check every passengers' tickets before they have access to the platforms can TPE stop them? TPE do the same as Northern at Huddersfield and Warrington Central stations where both operators operate.

From other posts I'm aware of people at York station not being able to wait until they board a Grand Central train to buy a ticket despite Grand Central saying that they permit it and I would think it would be the same situation at Bradford.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In my experience, the guards are the most knowledgable (but not always) followed by the ticket clerks, and finally the barrier staff are usually the 'weakest link'.

I agree about the barrier staff being the weak link. I've heard about stories of G4S staff working on behalf of Northern removing tickets from passengers which say 'Manchester CTLZ' i.e. they are valid on the Metrolink in the city centre and are not invalid when you leave a Manchester station.

With guards and ticket office staff I think it partly depends on what journey you're making. Guards have more knowledge of different lines but the ticket office staff generally have more knowledge of the line you're starting at.

 

[142094]

Northern manage Leeds station and if they want to check every passengers' tickets before they have access to the platforms can TPE stop them?

Northern only manage the barriers, they don't manage the station. Plus they seem to do quite a bad job managing the barriers, I've heard and seen many complaints about it in the past and know that Metro get a load of complains as well.

Of course TPE can't stop from checking tickets but Northern should be training the people on the barrier a bit better.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Northern manage the barriers at Leeds, in the same way that TPE have manned ticket barrier checks at Huddersfield each daytime. So it is all swings and roundabouts. Whoever manages each station has the right to put a barrier in place and check everyones tickets, no matter whose train they are going on.

As regards the validity of these overnight tickets, there is an easement as follows:

Leeds to Huddersfield or Manchester – Last Evening Services

Customers may use First TransPennine Express services which are scheduled to depart Leeds for Huddersfield/Manchester between 0230 and 0330 with tickets valid for the previous day.

Thus, a day return ticket from the previous day would be valid on the 0310 train, but not the 0425. These overnight services are generally worked by Manchester based Guards, and I know a lot of my colleagues will check tickets on these overnight trains after Leeds, but it will depend on who is on duty. Sadly a lot of people buy 50p Concessionary tickets from the SSTM's, and have to pay again on board - normally getting abusive in the process - so it is preferable that non valid tickets are weedled out at the barriers first to avoid confrontation on board.

Without the looking at the timetable I cannot see what times the trains were on Sunday morning, but they do tend to vary from week to week due to engineering works.

 

[yorkie]

Do TPE actually have a choice in the matter?
Northern manage Leeds station and if they want to check every passengers' tickets before they have access to the platforms can TPE stop them?

In theory, yes.

In reality, no, because they aren't going to want to fall out with Northern and they aren't really rivals with Northern and will both be wanting to help each other out when it comes to revenue.

Also the DafT are keen on barriers, and they therefore decide on policies that make it rather difficult for franchised operators to not comply...

TPE do the same as Northern at Huddersfield and Warrington Central stations where both operators operate.

Well exactly, they're helping each other out and won't want to fall out. It rather makes a mockery of privatisation though!

From other posts I'm aware of people at York station not being able to wait until they board a Grand Central train to buy a ticket despite Grand Central saying that they permit it and I would think it would be the same situation at Bradford.

I'm not aware of any problems , apart from in the very early days.

EC (or any other company) cannot deny passengers onto platforms if they are travelling with a railtour or open access operator.

I agree about the barrier staff being the weak link. I've heard about stories of G4S staff working on behalf of Northern removing tickets from passengers which say 'Manchester CTLZ' i.e. they are valid on the Metrolink in the city centre and are not invalid when you leave a Manchester station.

I heard a rumour from a reliable source a couple of years ago that due to a dispute, they were not allowed to check TPE passengers' tickets. However they have been checking for at least the last year so I wonder if it was resolved. How annoying as they're just a pain, especially when you have a bike and luggage.

With guards and ticket office staff I think it partly depends on what journey you're making. Guards have more knowledge of different lines but the ticket office staff generally have more knowledge of the line you're starting at.

Yes, that sounds about right. I'd add that some ticket office staff try to deny valid routes, or deny valid tickets claiming they are valid, whereas guards very rarely do this, it's certainly less frequent that such problems arise, based on what I read here, what I experience, and what people tell me.

 

[bb21]

I heard a rumour from a reliable source a couple of years ago that due to a dispute, they were not allowed to check TPE passengers' tickets. However they have been checking for at least the last year so I wonder if it was resolved. How annoying as they're just a pain, especially when you have a bike and luggage.

This kind of reminds me of a situation I had a few months back which demonstrated how REALLY poor some of them are. I had a Nottingham-Salford Crescent return ticket and on the outbound journey the Liverpool Lime St train was terminated short and went into one of the terminating platforms instead of the through Platform 14. I wanted to break my journey for a few hours to meet a mate in Manchester city centre so handed the ticket to the guy to check. Instead of looking at it carefully and giving it back, he took it without any thought and proceeded to check other people's. I stood idle for a few seconds - could not believe what he did - before approaching him again and requesting that I had my ticket back. He initially refused claiming that my ticket was no longer valid and that I shouldn't have left the station if i needed it to carry on with my journey. Ouch! That is before he realised what he'd said and started grudgingly looking through the pile in his hands, from the back(!), and eventually asking me the price of the ticket as he could not find it with the starting and finishing stations I told him. After some long and hard effort he finally located it, gave it a good read, before handing it back to me and finishing with 'advising' me not to leave the station next time but he let me off this time, to which I replied with the words 'Thank you. Please make sure you get properly trained asap'.

Amazing experience.

 

[northwichcat]

I heard a rumour from a reliable source a couple of years ago that due to a dispute, they were not allowed to check TPE passengers' tickets. However they have been checking for at least the last year so I wonder if it was resolved. How annoying as they're just a pain, especially when you have a bike and luggage.

It must have been a bit difficult at platforms 13 and 14 at Piccadilly where you can easily have a Northern, ATW and EMT train at one platform and a TPE one at the other so how would they know which train you came off or were going to board?

I'd add that some ticket office staff try to deny valid routes, or deny valid tickets claiming they are valid, whereas guards very rarely do this.

I can actually give an example of where a conductor may not correspond with the ticket office staff.

Knutsford to Liverpool South Parkway route:Any permitted £14.40

If you work out the permitted routes the shortest is to change at Chester and Liverpool, there are no direct trains and via Stockport/Manchester is not listed in the routing guide. However, via Manchester is about 4 miles longer than via Chester, is possible with one change and is also faster than via Chester and the ticket doesn't say not valid via Stockport/Manchester.

Now if you ask at the ticket office for valid routes and they look on their computer via Manchester wouldn't come up. However, once on the train towards Manchester how many conductors would make you buy two tickets instead? I doubt it'd be many.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Instead of looking at it carefully and giving it back, he took it without any thought and proceeded to check other people's. I stood idle for a few seconds - could not believe what he did - before approaching him again and requesting that I had my ticket back.

In cases like this I always keep a grip on my ticket and hold it at a level where the ticket inspector can see it, making sure I'm not covering the date or destination up with my fingers. Some still insist on taking the ticket and giving it back - which I don't understand.

 

[yorkie]

... After some long and hard effort he finally located it, gave it a good read, before handing it back to me and finishing with 'advising' me not to leave the station next time but he let me off this time,...

An appropriate response would be to advise him to get a new job, preferably in a non-customer facing role!

 

[sheff1]

In cases like this I always keep a grip on my ticket and hold it at a level where the ticket inspector can see it, making sure I'm not covering the date or destination up with my fingers. Some still insist on taking the ticket and giving it back - which I don't understand.

Sound advice. Bizarrely, the other day I had the opposite experience at Stockport. I offered my ticket to the checker at the bottom of the steps but he wouldn't take it even when I pointed out I had now completed my journey.

 

[142094]

I'm sure half of them don't actually read the tickets anyway that they are collecting. Very apparent at Leeds when the gate is open directly out onto the taxi rank in the morning, they always looked half asleep when I went past!