Ripon to Edinburgh with kids

[Diplodicus]

Is there a way to travel from Northallerton or nearby to Edinburgh this week with three children (13,10,8) that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

Returning same day. Have family railcard.

 

[185143]

Do you know exactly when and what time you want to travel? Are you ok with advance tickets?
£84.60 if you split at Newcastle, valid on any trains after 9:30

 

[John @ home]

valid on any trains after 9:30

That's a particular difficulty with a day trip Northallerton - Edinburgh because there's a train at 09:29 and the next at 10:29 gets to Edinburgh at 13:05.

Would Diplodicus be happy with a Darlington - Edinburgh rail journey, tackling Ripon - Darlington by bus if necessary?

 

[rdwarr]

Or do the Northallerton - Darlington leg on an Anytime ticket?

 

[Diplodicus]

Thanks for the "split" info.

 

[yorkie]

Until recently, you could purchase a good value through Off Peak fare, which was valid at any time (as was the case for many years under British Rail, GNER etc).

However East Coast decided that it would be a good idea to charge anyone who departs before 0930 an Anytime ticket. However, this is easily circumvented by only purchasing an Anytime ticket for part of the journey, and using an Off Peak ticket for the remainder, this is known as ' Split ticketing'

Using a combination of tickets is now almost essential for most walk-up long distance journeys starting early morning on Train Companies such as CrossCountry, Virgin Trains East Coast, and many more. In order to get best value, passengers must either do their own research, or use a website such as trainsplit.com* which will attempt to calculate the cheapest splits for you. Don't expect to be offered splits at a ticket office, as they are not supposed to advise you of this. The rail industry counts on some people simply going to a machine or ticket office and paying over the odds. As there is no requirement for them to offer splits, they make a lot of money by people not really knowing what to ask for.

(* Trainsplit will charge 10% of any savings as a fee, and currently doesn't offer splits in all circumstances, but it's getting slowly better all the time)

 

[John @ home]

£84.60 if you split at Newcastle, valid on any trains after 9:30

I'm afraid I can't find a combination of flexible Northallerton - Newcastle and Newcastle - Edinburgh tickets with a Family Railcard for 1 adult and 3 children costing a total of £84.60.

The Off-Peak Return Northallerton - Newcastle (with the return portion valid one month) is indeed "not valid on trains departing after 02:59 and before 09:30" (see NOTE below) but Diplodicus is returning the same day and the cheaper Off-Peak Day Return Northallerton - Newcastle is "not valid on trains timed to depart the origin station shown on the ticket after 02:59 until 09:15".

This allows a total price of £86.70 valid on the 09:29 departure or later, using:
Off-Peak Day Return Northallerton - Newcastle £23.65 for 1 adult and 3 children with a Family Railcard. (£12.70 + 3x£3.65)
Off-Peak Return Newcastle - Edinburgh £63.05 for 1 adult and 3 children with a Family Railcard. (£33.80 + 3x£9.75)

TrainSplit suggests that this can be reduced to a total of £80.60 with a further split at Dunbar:
Off-Peak Day Return Northallerton - Newcastle £23.65 for 1 adult and 3 children with a Family Railcard. (£12.70 + 3x£3.65)
Off-Peak Return Newcastle - Dunbar route Direct £42.00 for 1 adult and 3 children with a Family Railcard. (£22.50 + 3x£6.50)
Off-Peak Day Return Dunbar - Edinburgh £14.95 for 1 adult and 3 children with a Family Railcard. (£8.05+ 3x£2.30).

But this requires using trains which call at Dunbar in both directions. The 09:29 departure from Northallerton connects into a Newcastle - Edinburgh train which calls at Dunbar, but the other four journey opportunities between 08:00 and 11:00 do not. On the return leg, five of the nine Edinburgh - Newcastle trains leaving Edinburgh between 15:00 and 19:00 call at Dunbar but there is a 2-hour gap between 15:08 and 17:08. It is for Diplodicus to decide whether this reduced availability is worth the £6.10 saving.

NOTE The restriction applying to the Off-Peak Return Northallerton - Newcastle, "not valid on trains departing after 02:59 and before 09:30", allows use of the 09:29 Northallerton - Newcastle train on any day that the train departs Northallerton at least one minute late. This wording of a restriction is unusual. More common is something like "not valid on trains timed to depart the origin station shown on the ticket after 02:59 until 09:15".

 

[Bletchleyite]

NOTE The restriction applying to the Off-Peak Return Northallerton - Newcastle, "not valid on trains departing after 02:59 and before 09:30", allows use of the 09:29 Northallerton - Newcastle train on any day that the train departs Northallerton at least one minute late. This wording of a restriction is unusual. More common is something like "not valid on trains timed to depart the origin station shown on the ticket after 02:59 until 09:15".

I don't agree with you on that; all restrictions are based on the timetable. It *might* be a loophole but I wouldn't try it.

 

[yorkie]

... all restrictions are based on the timetable....

The restrictions mean what they say. While most are based on the timetable, some are not.

 

[Diplodicus]

My thanks to all of you and for the care you have taken in your responses.

 

[John @ home]

all restrictions are based on the timetable.

On what evidence do you base this assertion?

It *might* be a loophole

It's not a loophole. At one end of the restricted period, depending on how a train is running, it may be more favourable to the passenger than a restriction based on the time a train is scheduled to depart. At the other end, it may be more favourable to the train company.

For example, the holder of a Wakefield Stns - Northallerton Off-Peak Return route Any Permitted may choose, on the return leg, to catch the 0252 York - Leeds 0319 train. That ticket has a similar restriction 3V, "Mondays to Fridays, not valid on trains departing after 02:59 and before 09:30." In this instance, if the train is running ten minutes late, the passenger does not have a right to travel on that train. Discretion may be shown, but no contractual right to travel on that train then exists.

It's notable that both this example and the Northallerton - Newcastle one in post #7 were written by East Coast but have to be interpreted by a TPE conductor. I don't envy that person.

This situation is not what I would wish it to be. In my view, it would have been better if the wording of restrictions had remained with a centralised body. This would have led to fewer disputes. But now each train company has the right to word their own restrictions and several have made a pig's ear of it. While that persists we can give advice based only on the words in the contract.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The situation of the 0252 is a ridiculous one - you could have a passenger with an itinerary for it which was technically not valid. Hence the only interpretation that in my view makes sense is the timetabled one.